5 ms·

I don't really see any difference between this and the others such as Logojoy. What I don't like about these services is that some tout AI generated logos etc

by giarc 8y ago

I don't really see any difference between this and the others such as Logojoy. What I don't like about these services is that some tout AI generated logos etc etc when really they just take some input and generate the same logos over and over. There is no real AI going on.

nkozyra 8y ago
Pedantically, AI really encompasses and represents a broad range of ML approaches, many of which are fundamentally just algorithmic. If there's a rubric for producing these and its intended to simulate the approach a human might take, one could argue it's artificial intelligence.
- hk__2 8y ago
  More pedantically, there’s no intelligence in ML; AI doesn’t exist (yet).
  - Yen 8y ago
    This devolves really quickly into debates on semantics. Which is not a bad thing, but it means it's important to be clear on definitions. I've heard Artificial Intelligence snarkily defined as "whatever computers can't do" - once a human understands the problem well enough to make a computer solve it, solving the problem is no longer "AI". What this says about human intelligence, if-and-when a computer can perform the full set of tasks a human can perform, is left as an exercise to the reader. In any case, right now, a computer can provide answers to certain problems much more quickly and accurately than a human, and can provide more optimal answers. Whether a particular computer does this via hand-tuned heuristics, brute force applied to simple algorithms, or statistics over massive data sets, or some magic "AI" voodoo, it does it.
- taneq 8y ago
  > many of which are fundamentally just algorithmic. Are there non-algorithmic approaches to ML?
  - nkozyra 8y ago
    That's sort of my point. Take the KNN: an absurdly simple algorithm that can do some pretty impressive stuff. People file it under ML without a lot of hesitation because it can reproduce or approximate human output. I think the flexibility and self correction of an algorithm is what defines ML, but AI isn't so rigidly defined. If you can do something that seems like it came from a human you probably have a good argument, even if your approach is simple.
vanadium 8y ago
Back in the mid-00s there was a logo sweatshop called Arteis (later bought by HP) where people of widely disparate creative backgrounds pumped out logos for businesses, some as many as a few dozen a day. They, too, all looked pretty much cut from a template, because thinking requires time and the pay was about 1/10th you'd pay an equivalent Graphic Designer to do it over their lunch hour. It's just generating pretty cookie-cutter stuff whether by hand or by machine. You definitely get what you pay for, either way.
- ChristianGeek 8y ago
  Check out logotournament.com
- analogmemory 8y ago
  Sounds like what 99designs.com does
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
andy_adams 8y ago
For many use cases, whether it's technically AI or not isn't really relevant. I'm at the point where I don't have a budget for a designer, but don't have the design talent to make a good logo myself. It's either Fiverr or an automated tool, and this particular one was the first tool I've used where I was ready to snag the first designs it generated to use on a business card. AI or not, whatever they're doing to generate these works better than my alternatives.
mywittyname 8y ago
Yeah, this is more like a random logo generator than something that's ML powered. I guess it could be using PCA or something on the backend to filter out "bad" logo designs. I'd like to see more variations with the shapes. You see stars repeated a million times, it would be nice if the stars were actually different in size, shape and design.
monokai_nl 8y ago
I have a degree in AI, and studied it back when it wasn't popular. If I've learned anything, it's that AI is nothing magical. This system is more like classic machine learning using decision trees. It would be nice to try a real neural network, but I haven't found a way yet to come up with neural network generated vector shapes that also look nice. I'm trying to keep the focus on AI to a minimum on my site. To me it doesn't matter. It's just automated logo design using lots of math. And lots of custom algorithms to generate colors and to position shapes.
- umlautae 8y ago
  It would be great for the system to at least move further down the logo image cue and not reuse the first three pictures or so. Could you add a button to fetch a new portion of images?
  - monokai_nl 8y ago
    Not sure what you mean by fetching a new portion of images? One of the upcoming deploys will get a feature where you can pick a logo and make new variations based on its fonts, colors or layout. A quick prototype showed that it really helps with getting to a good result fast: Like the colors? generate new fonts / layouts. Like the layout? generate new colors / fonts.
    - umlautae 8y ago
      It looks like only a few top logo images are used for all randomly generated cards. And theses logos are often boring.

by giarc 8y ago

nkozyra 8y ago

Pedantically, AI really encompasses and represents a broad range of ML approaches, many of which are fundamentally just algorithmic. If there's a rubric for producing these and its intended to simulate the approach a human might take, one could argue it's artificial intelligence.

hk__2 8y ago
More pedantically, there’s no intelligence in ML; AI doesn’t exist (yet).
- Yen 8y ago
  This devolves really quickly into debates on semantics. Which is not a bad thing, but it means it's important to be clear on definitions. I've heard Artificial Intelligence snarkily defined as "whatever computers can't do" - once a human understands the problem well enough to make a computer solve it, solving the problem is no longer "AI". What this says about human intelligence, if-and-when a computer can perform the full set of tasks a human can perform, is left as an exercise to the reader. In any case, right now, a computer can provide answers to certain problems much more quickly and accurately than a human, and can provide more optimal answers. Whether a particular computer does this via hand-tuned heuristics, brute force applied to simple algorithms, or statistics over massive data sets, or some magic "AI" voodoo, it does it.
taneq 8y ago
> many of which are fundamentally just algorithmic. Are there non-algorithmic approaches to ML?
- nkozyra 8y ago
  That's sort of my point. Take the KNN: an absurdly simple algorithm that can do some pretty impressive stuff. People file it under ML without a lot of hesitation because it can reproduce or approximate human output. I think the flexibility and self correction of an algorithm is what defines ML, but AI isn't so rigidly defined. If you can do something that seems like it came from a human you probably have a good argument, even if your approach is simple.

vanadium 8y ago

Back in the mid-00s there was a logo sweatshop called Arteis (later bought by HP) where people of widely disparate creative backgrounds pumped out logos for businesses, some as many as a few dozen a day. They, too, all looked pretty much cut from a template, because thinking requires time and the pay was about 1/10th you'd pay an equivalent Graphic Designer to do it over their lunch hour. It's just generating pretty cookie-cutter stuff whether by hand or by machine. You definitely get what you pay for, either way.

ChristianGeek 8y ago
Check out logotournament.com
analogmemory 8y ago
Sounds like what 99designs.com does

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

andy_adams 8y ago

For many use cases, whether it's technically AI or not isn't really relevant. I'm at the point where I don't have a budget for a designer, but don't have the design talent to make a good logo myself. It's either Fiverr or an automated tool, and this particular one was the first tool I've used where I was ready to snag the first designs it generated to use on a business card. AI or not, whatever they're doing to generate these works better than my alternatives.

mywittyname 8y ago

Yeah, this is more like a random logo generator than something that's ML powered. I guess it could be using PCA or something on the backend to filter out "bad" logo designs. I'd like to see more variations with the shapes. You see stars repeated a million times, it would be nice if the stars were actually different in size, shape and design.

monokai_nl 8y ago

I have a degree in AI, and studied it back when it wasn't popular. If I've learned anything, it's that AI is nothing magical. This system is more like classic machine learning using decision trees. It would be nice to try a real neural network, but I haven't found a way yet to come up with neural network generated vector shapes that also look nice. I'm trying to keep the focus on AI to a minimum on my site. To me it doesn't matter. It's just automated logo design using lots of math. And lots of custom algorithms to generate colors and to position shapes.

umlautae 8y ago
It would be great for the system to at least move further down the logo image cue and not reuse the first three pictures or so. Could you add a button to fetch a new portion of images?
- monokai_nl 8y ago
  Not sure what you mean by fetching a new portion of images? One of the upcoming deploys will get a feature where you can pick a logo and make new variations based on its fonts, colors or layout. A quick prototype showed that it really helps with getting to a good result fast: Like the colors? generate new fonts / layouts. Like the layout? generate new colors / fonts.
  - umlautae 8y ago
    It looks like only a few top logo images are used for all randomly generated cards. And theses logos are often boring.