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...and my confidence that Slack will continue to be useful and a good experience for me just plummeted. Does this mean something is wrong with our market, or j

...and my confidence that Slack will continue to be useful and a good experience for me just plummeted. Does this mean something is wrong with our market, or just my expectations?

duxup 8y ago
It says something about the system of rolling out companies with high valuations that don't seem sustainable outside of major changes that alter the product's desirability. But people will buy this and other stocks regardless so I'm not sure there's any incentive to change that.
shittyadmin 8y ago
It means somethings fucked with the VC system and they're finding companies that should be worthless.
- anongraddebt 8y ago
  I agree. I also think we're going through a bizarre period in tech. I know I know, that's historical bias and all, but it doesn't mean living through it feels any less bizarre. A trite example is my use of Slack. I don't use it for messaging, though I've had the opportunity both in professional and non-professional settings to do so. Rather, I use Slack as a kind of RSS feed because people and organizations whose content I value have given me that opportunity on Slack. It's my favorite content notification feature because it is all in Slack, rather than being assaulted with notifications from all angles. Another trite example is my use of text messaging over the past year or so. Messaging is largely my social media experience now. I have - largely through no fault of my own - many different distinct group text messaging threads that are basically permanent. In Jan. 2018 that was not the case. Now, I can't get rid of these people I care about in meat space, from my messaging inbox! These group threads last for months and when one goes dead or silent another replaces it the next day. Each participant is posting in them on a daily basis (often 5+ times a day), with pictures and videos as well, and often long paragraphs of text. I do think the VC industry is showing signs of being broken. However, I also think companies are shape-shifting faster and more frequently then before.
6cd6beb 8y ago
Well the general startup model is to figure out a revenue stream after either an exit or going public, so you're probably onto something. Yes, I know, you can pay for slack, it's absolutely a viable product for free so most users don't. Does that sound like something a publicly traded company would be happy with?
- harryh 8y ago
  Slack figured out its revenue stream a long time ago: charing companies who use it. They were making $200M in revenue over a year ago: https://www.businessinsider.com/slack-200-million-annual-recurring-revenue-2017-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/slack-200-million-annual-rec... I'd imagine that number is significantly greater today.
  - jammygit 8y ago
    1.5 million paying users and 200M in arr is certainly impressive. Thanks for the link
- mruts 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure almost all companies (which is the majority of the user base) that use slack are paying for it. You might be able to say that most users aren't paying for it, but most organizations are.
jMyles 8y ago
Coming to the same conclusion, for me, just took a long slog of silently (and often subconsciously) working around the broken parts of Slack. When my company moved to Discord, it was a huge breath of fresh air.
- ergothus 8y ago
  My primary uses for slack are the searchability, and the multiple workspaces connected through one client, which Discord hasn't offered me, though I might be missing features.
  - bluetidepro 8y ago
    I don't know about the comparison of Discord vs Slack on searching, but both apps have had the multiple workspaces/servers feature for ages now.
  - ryanmcbride 8y ago
    Discord definitely lets you connect to multiple servers through one client. As for searchability, all chat logs are stored forever (unlike slack where only so many are stored unless you pay for full logs). The downside is that discord stores all the logs on their servers instead of yours, so it may not be suitable for some companies' security policies.
  - lugg 8y ago
    How many accounts? The resource usage scales linearly with accounts. I had to remove all but one account just to get it under control.
bdcravens 8y ago
Depends on what makes it useful and a good experience for you. As a user of a product with no ads (especially if you aren't a paying customer) you always know the IPO or acquisition is the ultimate goal.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
It's already been moving from a developer-focused chat platform to one almost hyper-focused on attracting enterprise sales. Slack built its first stage on the backs of developer evangelism and good integrations with third-party providers (something HipChat ignored / did poorly). And once they took that as far as they could go, they went full enterprise. I think the big tipping point for me was when they changed their chat retention policy from one focused on balanced user privacy, to one focused on whatever your boss wants to get their hands on. I think Slack had a nice balance between privacy and legal accountability before. Basically, there needed to be some serious event to warrant your boss snooping on your messages (because both parties would be notified it was happening). Now, it appears they are moving more towards a model of "your boss can covertly just peak at whatever they want, whenever they want." https://mashable.com/2018/03/21/slack-direct-message-privacy-change/ https://mashable.com/2018/03/21/slack-direct-message-privacy...
- gfwhukku 8y ago
  It also sucked when they closed the IRC gateway. https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/03/08/2049255/slack-is-shutting-down-its-irc-gateway https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/03/08/2049255/slack-is-shut...
tptacek 8y ago
Why would this mean something was wrong with the market? Slack has a firehose of revenue from paying customers.
- ergothus 8y ago
  Because my reaction isn't based on Slack - it's based on my experience of nearly everything that goes public shifting to growth at the cost of user contentment. Everything gets loaded with ads, pages start offering me solutions I don't want - the product that I was happy to pay for becomes one I don't want to pay for. That's likely a degree of hyperbole - I'm sure there are plenty of companies with products I've liked that have gone public and the product has remained great or even improved. But my gut reaction on hearing something go public is not "Yay, now they can improve their features" it's "Oh no, it is going to get screwed up", and that seems NOT to be the reaction I'm supposed to get.

...and my confidence that Slack will continue to be useful and a good experience for me just plummeted. Does this mean something is wrong with our market, or just my expectations?

duxup 8y ago

It says something about the system of rolling out companies with high valuations that don't seem sustainable outside of major changes that alter the product's desirability. But people will buy this and other stocks regardless so I'm not sure there's any incentive to change that.

shittyadmin 8y ago

It means somethings fucked with the VC system and they're finding companies that should be worthless.

anongraddebt 8y ago
I agree. I also think we're going through a bizarre period in tech. I know I know, that's historical bias and all, but it doesn't mean living through it feels any less bizarre. A trite example is my use of Slack. I don't use it for messaging, though I've had the opportunity both in professional and non-professional settings to do so. Rather, I use Slack as a kind of RSS feed because people and organizations whose content I value have given me that opportunity on Slack. It's my favorite content notification feature because it is all in Slack, rather than being assaulted with notifications from all angles. Another trite example is my use of text messaging over the past year or so. Messaging is largely my social media experience now. I have - largely through no fault of my own - many different distinct group text messaging threads that are basically permanent. In Jan. 2018 that was not the case. Now, I can't get rid of these people I care about in meat space, from my messaging inbox! These group threads last for months and when one goes dead or silent another replaces it the next day. Each participant is posting in them on a daily basis (often 5+ times a day), with pictures and videos as well, and often long paragraphs of text. I do think the VC industry is showing signs of being broken. However, I also think companies are shape-shifting faster and more frequently then before.

6cd6beb 8y ago

Well the general startup model is to figure out a revenue stream after either an exit or going public, so you're probably onto something. Yes, I know, you can pay for slack, it's absolutely a viable product for free so most users don't. Does that sound like something a publicly traded company would be happy with?

harryh 8y ago
Slack figured out its revenue stream a long time ago: charing companies who use it. They were making $200M in revenue over a year ago: https://www.businessinsider.com/slack-200-million-annual-recurring-revenue-2017-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/slack-200-million-annual-rec... I'd imagine that number is significantly greater today.
- jammygit 8y ago
  1.5 million paying users and 200M in arr is certainly impressive. Thanks for the link
mruts 8y ago
I'm pretty sure almost all companies (which is the majority of the user base) that use slack are paying for it. You might be able to say that most users aren't paying for it, but most organizations are.

jMyles 8y ago

Coming to the same conclusion, for me, just took a long slog of silently (and often subconsciously) working around the broken parts of Slack. When my company moved to Discord, it was a huge breath of fresh air.

ergothus 8y ago
My primary uses for slack are the searchability, and the multiple workspaces connected through one client, which Discord hasn't offered me, though I might be missing features.
- bluetidepro 8y ago
  I don't know about the comparison of Discord vs Slack on searching, but both apps have had the multiple workspaces/servers feature for ages now.
- ryanmcbride 8y ago
  Discord definitely lets you connect to multiple servers through one client. As for searchability, all chat logs are stored forever (unlike slack where only so many are stored unless you pay for full logs). The downside is that discord stores all the logs on their servers instead of yours, so it may not be suitable for some companies' security policies.
- lugg 8y ago
  How many accounts? The resource usage scales linearly with accounts. I had to remove all but one account just to get it under control.

bdcravens 8y ago

Depends on what makes it useful and a good experience for you. As a user of a product with no ads (especially if you aren't a paying customer) you always know the IPO or acquisition is the ultimate goal.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

It's already been moving from a developer-focused chat platform to one almost hyper-focused on attracting enterprise sales. Slack built its first stage on the backs of developer evangelism and good integrations with third-party providers (something HipChat ignored / did poorly). And once they took that as far as they could go, they went full enterprise. I think the big tipping point for me was when they changed their chat retention policy from one focused on balanced user privacy, to one focused on whatever your boss wants to get their hands on. I think Slack had a nice balance between privacy and legal accountability before. Basically, there needed to be some serious event to warrant your boss snooping on your messages (because both parties would be notified it was happening). Now, it appears they are moving more towards a model of "your boss can covertly just peak at whatever they want, whenever they want." https://mashable.com/2018/03/21/slack-direct-message-privacy-change/ https://mashable.com/2018/03/21/slack-direct-message-privacy...

gfwhukku 8y ago
It also sucked when they closed the IRC gateway. https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/03/08/2049255/slack-is-shutting-down-its-irc-gateway https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/03/08/2049255/slack-is-shut...

tptacek 8y ago

Why would this mean something was wrong with the market? Slack has a firehose of revenue from paying customers.

ergothus 8y ago
Because my reaction isn't based on Slack - it's based on my experience of nearly everything that goes public shifting to growth at the cost of user contentment. Everything gets loaded with ads, pages start offering me solutions I don't want - the product that I was happy to pay for becomes one I don't want to pay for. That's likely a degree of hyperbole - I'm sure there are plenty of companies with products I've liked that have gone public and the product has remained great or even improved. But my gut reaction on hearing something go public is not "Yay, now they can improve their features" it's "Oh no, it is going to get screwed up", and that seems NOT to be the reaction I'm supposed to get.