4 ms·

The Wasting of Britain's Marshall Aid

45 points by vinnyglennon 8y ago

mmmrk 8y ago
I currently live in London and the first thing that came to mind is, so this is why the entire city feels so run down outside a few rich spots.
- sgt101 8y ago
  And yet you are still there...
  - ionised 8y ago
    Your point being?
    - growlist 8y ago
      Likely - everyone seems to love to bash the UK, especially following Brexit, and yet it continues to be an attractive place to live for many, thus giving the lie somewhat to those that would run it down. My feelings are that the antipathy towards the UK reveal more about the haters than the hated.
      - newsgremlin 8y ago
        "yet it continues to be an attractive place to live for many" That is the exact opposite of what the average Brit wants. And that is the attitude which brings itself "hate". This is also a very London/SE England centric view of how they view the state of the union to be in, that everywhere must be like London because London is so great and prosperous.
        techer 8y ago
        Very true. Except blaming others when their own elected officials made this happen over and over and over over decades is the issue I have with this.
- techer 8y ago
  You weren't here in the 80s I guess...London (all parts) has come a long long way.
kochikame 8y ago
When British people go to other countries that got wrecked in the war, like Japan or Germany, they will sometimes look around them and comment "How did they do it? How did they build and keep all this manufacturing capacity? Why do they have this awesome infrastructure that we don't? What did they do differently?" For Germany, this article provides the answer. For Japan, it's a little different, of course, but the principle of judiciously using post-war investment holds for Japan too. This should be more common knowledge and hopefully it will stop the rumors like "Germany was flattened so they could start from a blank slate". This obviously holds no water as this advantage would have been entirely eroded within 10-20 years as new technologies came in anyway. The UK squandered Marshall Aid. The UK squandered North Sea oil revenue. The UK ripped up and threw away an advantageous membership of the world's largest free trade bloc. The UK has an unenviable track record in this area.
- sgt101 8y ago
  Well, causality is hard to establish here. Note, post north sea oil the UK had an economic boom that saw it move ahead of both Italy and France on many measures. The UK did not use Marshall aid for industrial investment, but it did build a welfare state, and did eventually pay off its debts of 200% gdp.
  - kochikame 8y ago
    I do agree to some extent, but when you look at the sovereign wealth fund that Norway has that still generates huge amounts of revenue and then look at what the UK has left... it does seem like the word "squander" is appropriate.
    - sgt101 8y ago
      Well - currently the UK has the City of London, which makes much more money than the Norwegian fund. Now, you could argue that The City will be swept away by global forces and brexit - this is possible, and you could argue that The City was here before north sea oil, and you would have a point. On the other hand I would say that the flood of money through London from north sea oil played a significant role in providing capital for speculation and investment and without that The City might have lost out to Paris or Frankfurt in the 1980's and 90's.

45 points by vinnyglennon 8y ago

I currently live in London and the first thing that came to mind is, so this is why the entire city feels so run down outside a few rich spots.

sgt101 8y ago
And yet you are still there...
- ionised 8y ago
  Your point being?
  - growlist 8y ago
    Likely - everyone seems to love to bash the UK, especially following Brexit, and yet it continues to be an attractive place to live for many, thus giving the lie somewhat to those that would run it down. My feelings are that the antipathy towards the UK reveal more about the haters than the hated.
    - newsgremlin 8y ago
      "yet it continues to be an attractive place to live for many" That is the exact opposite of what the average Brit wants. And that is the attitude which brings itself "hate". This is also a very London/SE England centric view of how they view the state of the union to be in, that everywhere must be like London because London is so great and prosperous.
      - techer 8y ago
        Very true. Except blaming others when their own elected officials made this happen over and over and over over decades is the issue I have with this.
techer 8y ago
You weren't here in the 80s I guess...London (all parts) has come a long long way.

kochikame 8y ago

When British people go to other countries that got wrecked in the war, like Japan or Germany, they will sometimes look around them and comment "How did they do it? How did they build and keep all this manufacturing capacity? Why do they have this awesome infrastructure that we don't? What did they do differently?" For Germany, this article provides the answer. For Japan, it's a little different, of course, but the principle of judiciously using post-war investment holds for Japan too. This should be more common knowledge and hopefully it will stop the rumors like "Germany was flattened so they could start from a blank slate". This obviously holds no water as this advantage would have been entirely eroded within 10-20 years as new technologies came in anyway. The UK squandered Marshall Aid. The UK squandered North Sea oil revenue. The UK ripped up and threw away an advantageous membership of the world's largest free trade bloc. The UK has an unenviable track record in this area.

sgt101 8y ago
Well, causality is hard to establish here. Note, post north sea oil the UK had an economic boom that saw it move ahead of both Italy and France on many measures. The UK did not use Marshall aid for industrial investment, but it did build a welfare state, and did eventually pay off its debts of 200% gdp.
- kochikame 8y ago
  I do agree to some extent, but when you look at the sovereign wealth fund that Norway has that still generates huge amounts of revenue and then look at what the UK has left... it does seem like the word "squander" is appropriate.
  - sgt101 8y ago
    Well - currently the UK has the City of London, which makes much more money than the Norwegian fund. Now, you could argue that The City will be swept away by global forces and brexit - this is possible, and you could argue that The City was here before north sea oil, and you would have a point. On the other hand I would say that the flood of money through London from north sea oil played a significant role in providing capital for speculation and investment and without that The City might have lost out to Paris or Frankfurt in the 1980's and 90's.