2 ms·

Is simple possession of counterfeit cash illegal in and of itself, or only when spent? I have a collection of 'fakes' and this would be a fun addition, but wou

by cwkoss 8y ago

Is simple possession of counterfeit cash illegal in and of itself, or only when spent? I have a collection of 'fakes' and this would be a fun addition, but wouldn't want to risk federal prison for it.

ddebernardy 8y ago
[Scratches head...] If you're worried that it is illegal, are you sure you shouldn't be posting this anonymously?
- cwkoss 8y ago
  If I had intended to do it regardless of legality, I would not have asked about legality.
cphoover 8y ago
Hmmm if you are collecting them with no intent of using them, I would think you would have a good freedom of speech defense, (but don't quote me on that INAL). From : https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/can-i-be-charged-with-using-counterfeit-money-if-i-di https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/can-i-be-cha... "Crimes Involving the Use of Counterfeit Currency The use of counterfeit currency can violate both federal and state law. Under federal law, the use or attempted use of counterfeit currency is illegal if the person has the intent to defraud the recipient. A conviction for the offense carries up to 20 years in prison and a fine. A conviction for producing counterfeit currency similarly carries a maximum sentence of 20 years imprisonment and a fine, as does a conviction for merely possessing counterfeit currency. All of these crimes require that the prosecutor prove that the defendant acted with the intent to defraud." "intent to defraud." being key here...
- cwkoss 8y ago
  Hmm, interesting. I'm in no rush, so will certainly be doing more research. I currently have some counterfeit boullion and fake Magic the Gathering cards. I find the idea of effectively-worthless items that appear very valuable to be quite aesthetically appealing. Fake art seems cool, and I've been looking into movie prop money. "Real" counterfeits would be an interesting collection item, but would probably deface the back/front of each bill with word "FAKE - do not spend or accept" so I could display them, but reasonably say I did not intend to spend them.
klodolph 8y ago
I looked through 18 U.S. Code Chapter 25. I am not a lawyer. It does not look like simple possession is illegal, you have to spend it with an intent to defraud. That said, it could also be illegal to buy counterfeit currency, even if you don’t intend to sell it.
- Balgair 8y ago
  I wonder how research gets around it. Most printer/copiers have detection software in them to determine if someone is trying to print out money and then cancels the print job. I can imagine that those kinds of folks would need counterfeits to test against. Also, there is a good case for educational purposes and museum collections, in addition to things just like stamp collecting.
  - _underfl0w_ 8y ago
    > Most printers/copiers have detection software Do you have a source for this? I've never heard of it but would be really interested in looking at, say, a disassembly of applicable firmware.
    - hexadec 8y ago
      The Eurion Constellation is how this is usually done. Most US bills above a certain value and most larger Euro bills have this embedded somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - RankingMember 8y ago
      I've only heard of the built-in recognition of currency within image editing software, e.g. Photoshop. If you scan in currency and try to open it, the software (usually) detects it and won't let you: https://hyperallergic.com/195922/what-happens-when-you-try-to-photoshop-money/ https://hyperallergic.com/195922/what-happens-when-you-try-t...
nyc_pizzadev 8y ago
I've heard stories that this is sometimes an issue for the film industry. See: https://propmoviemoney.com/what-does-rush-hour-2-have-to-do-with-prop-money-laws/ https://propmoviemoney.com/what-does-rush-hour-2-have-to-do-...

by cwkoss 8y ago

ddebernardy 8y ago

[Scratches head...] If you're worried that it is illegal, are you sure you shouldn't be posting this anonymously?

cwkoss 8y ago
If I had intended to do it regardless of legality, I would not have asked about legality.

cphoover 8y ago

Hmmm if you are collecting them with no intent of using them, I would think you would have a good freedom of speech defense, (but don't quote me on that INAL). From : https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/can-i-be-charged-with-using-counterfeit-money-if-i-di https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/can-i-be-cha... "Crimes Involving the Use of Counterfeit Currency The use of counterfeit currency can violate both federal and state law. Under federal law, the use or attempted use of counterfeit currency is illegal if the person has the intent to defraud the recipient. A conviction for the offense carries up to 20 years in prison and a fine. A conviction for producing counterfeit currency similarly carries a maximum sentence of 20 years imprisonment and a fine, as does a conviction for merely possessing counterfeit currency. All of these crimes require that the prosecutor prove that the defendant acted with the intent to defraud." "intent to defraud." being key here...

cwkoss 8y ago
Hmm, interesting. I'm in no rush, so will certainly be doing more research. I currently have some counterfeit boullion and fake Magic the Gathering cards. I find the idea of effectively-worthless items that appear very valuable to be quite aesthetically appealing. Fake art seems cool, and I've been looking into movie prop money. "Real" counterfeits would be an interesting collection item, but would probably deface the back/front of each bill with word "FAKE - do not spend or accept" so I could display them, but reasonably say I did not intend to spend them.

klodolph 8y ago

I looked through 18 U.S. Code Chapter 25. I am not a lawyer. It does not look like simple possession is illegal, you have to spend it with an intent to defraud. That said, it could also be illegal to buy counterfeit currency, even if you don’t intend to sell it.

Balgair 8y ago
I wonder how research gets around it. Most printer/copiers have detection software in them to determine if someone is trying to print out money and then cancels the print job. I can imagine that those kinds of folks would need counterfeits to test against. Also, there is a good case for educational purposes and museum collections, in addition to things just like stamp collecting.
- _underfl0w_ 8y ago
  > Most printers/copiers have detection software Do you have a source for this? I've never heard of it but would be really interested in looking at, say, a disassembly of applicable firmware.
  - hexadec 8y ago
    The Eurion Constellation is how this is usually done. Most US bills above a certain value and most larger Euro bills have this embedded somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - RankingMember 8y ago
    I've only heard of the built-in recognition of currency within image editing software, e.g. Photoshop. If you scan in currency and try to open it, the software (usually) detects it and won't let you: https://hyperallergic.com/195922/what-happens-when-you-try-to-photoshop-money/ https://hyperallergic.com/195922/what-happens-when-you-try-t...

nyc_pizzadev 8y ago

I've heard stories that this is sometimes an issue for the film industry. See: https://propmoviemoney.com/what-does-rush-hour-2-have-to-do-with-prop-money-laws/ https://propmoviemoney.com/what-does-rush-hour-2-have-to-do-...