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I used to think like this. Then I read "12 Rules for Life" by Jordan Peterson and "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown a few times, and I realized I was making an im

I used to think like this. Then I read "12 Rules for Life" by Jordan Peterson and "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown a few times, and I realized I was making an implicit choice to see the world that way, and that it is a completely counter productive viewpoint. A shift in perspective can change everything.

kelvin0 8y ago
I think smaddox makes a good point, I don't get the downvotes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/9eaqqt/what_we_can_control/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/9eaqqt/what_we_ca... "The first is that some things are within our control and some are not, and that much of our unhappiness is caused by thinking that we can control things that, in fact, we can’t." You choose to change your mental 'model' and re-frame your perspective (not to be confused with burying your head in the sand). I don't consider myself as being a 'stoic' or evangelize it at all, however this mindset seems quite adequate in many of life's challenges.
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  Downvotes are probably related to Jordan Peterson
  - kelvin0 8y ago
    Really? I did not realize he was shunned on HN.
LeifCarrotson 8y ago
Didn't downvote you, but while I've heard similar recommendations before, that's not a reasonable response to existential depression. On the one hand, you're correct, one's outlook on the world does impact your mood. Humans are emotional and easily confused, and shifting your viewpoint can change your mood in powerful ways. Perhaps those books present a position from which to view the world that's useful in lifting one's mood, which shifts your attention away from things which are depressing and towards things which are uplifting. On the other, if there are genuine facts which are important and which cause me to be depressed, it is important to me in my core values to believe those things to be true, neither blinding myself to their existence nor incorrectly believing them to be false. Changing a viewpoint will not cause those inconvenient facts to become false: They exist, they cause depression, I am aware of them, hence I am depressed. I am willing to add facts to my worldview which are uplifting and counterbalance the depressing ones. I am willing to adjust priorities and weigh the importance of the depressing ones less and the uplifting ones more, in proportion to the degree that they are or are not important. I might be willing to cheat a small amount, and allow myself to lean my viewpoint slightly to the happy side of the correct position if that position is more productive, but there's a fairly low limit to the self-deception I can tolerate, even if it causes me to be depressed.
- badpun 8y ago
  I haven't read the other book, but "12 rules for life" is not at all about self-deception. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite - it stresses the fact that life is often dark and difficult and depressing, and teaches the reader ways to better handle the difficulties. Judging by the size of the Jordan Peterson phenomenon, the book must be doing something right.
- smaddox 8y ago
  Reading these books and changing your perspective is by no means a cure-all for depression. For me, it's been a necessary catalyst for taking the actions necessary to combat feelings of depression, though. And it has dramatically reduced my feelings of anger and irritability.

kelvin0 8y ago

I think smaddox makes a good point, I don't get the downvotes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/9eaqqt/what_we_can_control/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/9eaqqt/what_we_ca... "The first is that some things are within our control and some are not, and that much of our unhappiness is caused by thinking that we can control things that, in fact, we can’t." You choose to change your mental 'model' and re-frame your perspective (not to be confused with burying your head in the sand). I don't consider myself as being a 'stoic' or evangelize it at all, however this mindset seems quite adequate in many of life's challenges.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago
Downvotes are probably related to Jordan Peterson
- kelvin0 8y ago
  Really? I did not realize he was shunned on HN.

LeifCarrotson 8y ago

Didn't downvote you, but while I've heard similar recommendations before, that's not a reasonable response to existential depression. On the one hand, you're correct, one's outlook on the world does impact your mood. Humans are emotional and easily confused, and shifting your viewpoint can change your mood in powerful ways. Perhaps those books present a position from which to view the world that's useful in lifting one's mood, which shifts your attention away from things which are depressing and towards things which are uplifting. On the other, if there are genuine facts which are important and which cause me to be depressed, it is important to me in my core values to believe those things to be true, neither blinding myself to their existence nor incorrectly believing them to be false. Changing a viewpoint will not cause those inconvenient facts to become false: They exist, they cause depression, I am aware of them, hence I am depressed. I am willing to add facts to my worldview which are uplifting and counterbalance the depressing ones. I am willing to adjust priorities and weigh the importance of the depressing ones less and the uplifting ones more, in proportion to the degree that they are or are not important. I might be willing to cheat a small amount, and allow myself to lean my viewpoint slightly to the happy side of the correct position if that position is more productive, but there's a fairly low limit to the self-deception I can tolerate, even if it causes me to be depressed.

badpun 8y ago
I haven't read the other book, but "12 rules for life" is not at all about self-deception. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite - it stresses the fact that life is often dark and difficult and depressing, and teaches the reader ways to better handle the difficulties. Judging by the size of the Jordan Peterson phenomenon, the book must be doing something right.
smaddox 8y ago
Reading these books and changing your perspective is by no means a cure-all for depression. For me, it's been a necessary catalyst for taking the actions necessary to combat feelings of depression, though. And it has dramatically reduced my feelings of anger and irritability.