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>People really underestimate how poorly suited our modern political structure is to accomplishing large scale public works projects. Did you read the article?

>People really underestimate how poorly suited our modern political structure is to accomplishing large scale public works projects. Did you read the article? There's something deeply wrong with large scale construction costs in America, but it isn't politics. Or it isn't _just_ politics. Politics and corruption can't explain 5-10x more expensive costs. https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/09/why-so-costly/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/09/why-so-costly/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost... https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/17/highlights-from-the-comments-on-cost-disease/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/17/highlights-from-the-co...

whatshisface 8y ago
>Politics and corruption can't explain 5-10x more expensive costs. Corruption can explain any increase in cost, if your hands are in the money purse you can steal as much as you want.
solatic 8y ago
On the contrary, political structure is the only way to explain 5-10x costs. Consider the following simple hypothetical - imagine that a project requires a single person to implement, and that person costs $100k in yearly salary (and assume for argument's sake that benefits that benefits, cost of materials, etc. are all free), and after a year of steady work, the project will be completed. Such a project would have a projected cost of $100k. Now let's assume that this person is distracted - they need to get their every decision approved, they have to pitch their work to stakeholders, etc., and as a result, the project now takes two years. Just by virtue of the project taking more time - all other factors constant - the project now costs double because the project now costs two years' salary instead of one. When you have a political structure whereby Federal funding mixes with environmental review mixes with state funding mixes with private funding mixes with local permitting mixes with multiple state and local bodies each with their own permitting setups etc. - you have a guarantee that the process will be slower than molasses. Then you have foreign countries with transit authorities having sole oversight and dedicated funding getting projects done in a fraction of the time. You can argue that having three people paid $60,000 each to do the work of one foreigner making $10,000 a year in Asia is a 18x increase in costs. And you would be correct if labor costs were actually the majority of the overall cost. But they're not - administration is.
- busterarm 8y ago
  We had roughly the funding situation we have now under the much more corrupt party boss system but projects came in on time (and cheaper than now...still often overbudget). As bad as grift and corruption are, it did ensure that everyone had skin in the game and that money flowed in two directions. Mostly everyone had to make good on their promises. At the extremes there are bad examples of corruption where nothing got done, sure, but nothing getting done is the norm now with very little corruption. Basic game theory predicts how these systems will play out. I really wonder why people are surprised with the results we get today. The biggest cost overruns today are from delays.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  Actually, I think it's arguable that financial market deregulation in the US is largely responsible for the increased costs. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/02/real-reason-stock-buybacks-problem.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/02/real-reason-stock-bu...

whatshisface 8y ago

>Politics and corruption can't explain 5-10x more expensive costs. Corruption can explain any increase in cost, if your hands are in the money purse you can steal as much as you want.

solatic 8y ago

On the contrary, political structure is the only way to explain 5-10x costs. Consider the following simple hypothetical - imagine that a project requires a single person to implement, and that person costs $100k in yearly salary (and assume for argument's sake that benefits that benefits, cost of materials, etc. are all free), and after a year of steady work, the project will be completed. Such a project would have a projected cost of $100k. Now let's assume that this person is distracted - they need to get their every decision approved, they have to pitch their work to stakeholders, etc., and as a result, the project now takes two years. Just by virtue of the project taking more time - all other factors constant - the project now costs double because the project now costs two years' salary instead of one. When you have a political structure whereby Federal funding mixes with environmental review mixes with state funding mixes with private funding mixes with local permitting mixes with multiple state and local bodies each with their own permitting setups etc. - you have a guarantee that the process will be slower than molasses. Then you have foreign countries with transit authorities having sole oversight and dedicated funding getting projects done in a fraction of the time. You can argue that having three people paid $60,000 each to do the work of one foreigner making $10,000 a year in Asia is a 18x increase in costs. And you would be correct if labor costs were actually the majority of the overall cost. But they're not - administration is.

busterarm 8y ago
We had roughly the funding situation we have now under the much more corrupt party boss system but projects came in on time (and cheaper than now...still often overbudget). As bad as grift and corruption are, it did ensure that everyone had skin in the game and that money flowed in two directions. Mostly everyone had to make good on their promises. At the extremes there are bad examples of corruption where nothing got done, sure, but nothing getting done is the norm now with very little corruption. Basic game theory predicts how these systems will play out. I really wonder why people are surprised with the results we get today. The biggest cost overruns today are from delays.
TimTheTinker 8y ago
Actually, I think it's arguable that financial market deregulation in the US is largely responsible for the increased costs. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/02/real-reason-stock-buybacks-problem.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/02/real-reason-stock-bu...