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> the web could get any more terrible than it is today Please cry a river how bad it is. As someone actively developing since about 2006 I think it's never bee

> the web could get any more terrible than it is today Please cry a river how bad it is. As someone actively developing since about 2006 I think it's never been in a better shape.

kmlx 8y ago
totally agree. not only that, but we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible yet.
AtHeartEngineer 8y ago
Agreed, there is more tooling and insight than ever before
coding123 8y ago
Please respond to the actual concern, you cut out the entirely relevant part of his comment. Are you just trying to say you love React, Node, Java - cause that's what it sounds like you're saying which has nothing to do with his concern over ML to enhance tracking, etc.. If you think the tracking, etc.. has been getting better since 2006, then it clearly means you're advocating it. That or you just didn't read the full comment?
- denniskane 8y ago
  No. He (or she) is saying that he (or she) has finally found "Linux on the Web", and he (or she) has seen the light. Seriously though... my baby is starting to come alive. I've been banging away on it since 2012. The above phrase should allow you to find it if you know about modern search practices :) We can start putting ML frameworks galore in LOTW, and have it all start being in service of the people. Or how about this... a return to GOFP (Good Ol' Frickin' Programming)... possibly using numbered lines and goto statements, like we did back in the day, copying fun little snippets into the old TRS-80! (LOTW is a new kind of client side paradigm. Actually, it is a return to the same old paradigm of something I would call "immediate mode programming", where all of the resources are simply right there in front of you. There is just a little bit of help from our friends who build and maintain the back-end infrastructure to allow all of the resources to get conveniently shipped in.)
- onion2k 8y ago
  If you think the tracking, etc.. has been getting better since 2006, then it clearly means you're advocating it. Tracking is far better now than it was in 2006, and I say that as someone who is hugely against tracking. We have the Do Not Track header, which a lot of companies actually pay attention to, we have much better privacy plugins and ad-blockers (privacy badger, u-block origin, pi-hole, etc), and we have a growing consensus that tracking isn't actually that effective which seems to be pushing some companies to try alternative models in their advertising revenue, and their ad spend on the other side. Things are better.
  - newaccoutnas 8y ago
    For the average user, against the larger players in the market?
  - DevKoala 8y ago
    This is not true, tracking is more prevalent than ever. Legislation and public backlash have forced service providers to ask before they track. However, advancements in ML and commoditization of big data engineering solutions have made it easier than ever for more events to be tracked and more accurate profiling to be possible.
- kowdermeister 8y ago
  It was not really relevant. It could be anything that's new, webassembly for example, or some new WebGL framework... > Are you just trying to say you love React, Node, Java... No stack I advocate in particular. I'm trying to say that the web is a wonderful platform and I hope it will stay for a very-very long time. For the client side ML libraries, I don't think it makes sense to use it for tracking. You can already extract information with a high accuracy. Tracking is a natural consequence of money flowing into the industry and tracking can be achieved with high accuracy. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but at least we can do something about it.
endofcapital 8y ago
I first developed a web page in 1997. First got paid to do it in 1998. Innovated a lot of the DHTML/AJAX/SPA techniques before anyone else knew that was even possible, way before that first AJAX article was written. Not sure how that's relevant, but yeah the web just gets worse and worse every year. Mostly due to the corporations of course, but the standards group are culpable too. I kind of want to write a book on the history of the W3C if nobody has already, it's such a horror show.
- AriaMinaei 8y ago
  Can you ELI5 how standard groups have made the web worse?
na85 8y ago
That's the problem, though: The web has steadily been growing more convenient/friendly for developers, while steadily growing more hostile for users. All these javascript "advances" just make it easier for people to e.g. mine monero on my system without my consent and enable mediocre web developers to load up previously quick-loading sites with custom scrolling animations, autoplay video, and malvertising. I'm sure it's in better shape for you, a web developer. It's objectively worse for me, a user.
- wuliwong 8y ago
  These advances also make it possible to have the user experiences of sites like spotify, netflix, soundcloud, etc. There's a lot of bad stuff but there is also a lot of good.
rhizome 8y ago
The experience of using the web is much worse than it used to be.

> the web could get any more terrible than it is today Please cry a river how bad it is. As someone actively developing since about 2006 I think it's never been in a better shape.

kmlx 8y ago

totally agree. not only that, but we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible yet.

AtHeartEngineer 8y ago

Agreed, there is more tooling and insight than ever before

coding123 8y ago

Please respond to the actual concern, you cut out the entirely relevant part of his comment. Are you just trying to say you love React, Node, Java - cause that's what it sounds like you're saying which has nothing to do with his concern over ML to enhance tracking, etc.. If you think the tracking, etc.. has been getting better since 2006, then it clearly means you're advocating it. That or you just didn't read the full comment?

denniskane 8y ago
No. He (or she) is saying that he (or she) has finally found "Linux on the Web", and he (or she) has seen the light. Seriously though... my baby is starting to come alive. I've been banging away on it since 2012. The above phrase should allow you to find it if you know about modern search practices :) We can start putting ML frameworks galore in LOTW, and have it all start being in service of the people. Or how about this... a return to GOFP (Good Ol' Frickin' Programming)... possibly using numbered lines and goto statements, like we did back in the day, copying fun little snippets into the old TRS-80! (LOTW is a new kind of client side paradigm. Actually, it is a return to the same old paradigm of something I would call "immediate mode programming", where all of the resources are simply right there in front of you. There is just a little bit of help from our friends who build and maintain the back-end infrastructure to allow all of the resources to get conveniently shipped in.)
onion2k 8y ago
If you think the tracking, etc.. has been getting better since 2006, then it clearly means you're advocating it. Tracking is far better now than it was in 2006, and I say that as someone who is hugely against tracking. We have the Do Not Track header, which a lot of companies actually pay attention to, we have much better privacy plugins and ad-blockers (privacy badger, u-block origin, pi-hole, etc), and we have a growing consensus that tracking isn't actually that effective which seems to be pushing some companies to try alternative models in their advertising revenue, and their ad spend on the other side. Things are better.
- newaccoutnas 8y ago
  For the average user, against the larger players in the market?
- DevKoala 8y ago
  This is not true, tracking is more prevalent than ever. Legislation and public backlash have forced service providers to ask before they track. However, advancements in ML and commoditization of big data engineering solutions have made it easier than ever for more events to be tracked and more accurate profiling to be possible.
kowdermeister 8y ago
It was not really relevant. It could be anything that's new, webassembly for example, or some new WebGL framework... > Are you just trying to say you love React, Node, Java... No stack I advocate in particular. I'm trying to say that the web is a wonderful platform and I hope it will stay for a very-very long time. For the client side ML libraries, I don't think it makes sense to use it for tracking. You can already extract information with a high accuracy. Tracking is a natural consequence of money flowing into the industry and tracking can be achieved with high accuracy. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but at least we can do something about it.

endofcapital 8y ago

I first developed a web page in 1997. First got paid to do it in 1998. Innovated a lot of the DHTML/AJAX/SPA techniques before anyone else knew that was even possible, way before that first AJAX article was written. Not sure how that's relevant, but yeah the web just gets worse and worse every year. Mostly due to the corporations of course, but the standards group are culpable too. I kind of want to write a book on the history of the W3C if nobody has already, it's such a horror show.

AriaMinaei 8y ago
Can you ELI5 how standard groups have made the web worse?

na85 8y ago

That's the problem, though: The web has steadily been growing more convenient/friendly for developers, while steadily growing more hostile for users. All these javascript "advances" just make it easier for people to e.g. mine monero on my system without my consent and enable mediocre web developers to load up previously quick-loading sites with custom scrolling animations, autoplay video, and malvertising. I'm sure it's in better shape for you, a web developer. It's objectively worse for me, a user.

wuliwong 8y ago
These advances also make it possible to have the user experiences of sites like spotify, netflix, soundcloud, etc. There's a lot of bad stuff but there is also a lot of good.

rhizome 8y ago

The experience of using the web is much worse than it used to be.