4 ms·

With respect to the U.S. Congress, I don't think there is sufficient language to make something like this sufficient without also being overly broad. I'm lookin

by beager 8y ago

With respect to the U.S. Congress, I don't think there is sufficient language to make something like this sufficient without also being overly broad. I'm looking at this, specifically: 10 ‘‘(2) the term ‘deep fake’ means an audiovisual 11 record created or altered in a manner that the 12 record would falsely appear to a reasonable observer 13 to be an authentic record of the actual speech or 14 conduct of an individual; and If that's the case, any sort of creative editing, even just quick cuts, could fall under this (see: any primetime or cable news, any TV campaign ad, the quick cuts of Obama where it looks like he's singing Never Gonna Give You Up, etc). And, not to get on the US politics slant, but a law like this could be weaponized against political foes—basically, label everything you don't like as "fake news" and prosecute it under this law. Additionally, if you look at this and just say "well, we all know what a deep fake is, so your point is moot," I will say, somewhat at the risk of contradicting myself, that maybe the language needs to be forward-thinking to cover whatever the next "deep fake" is. In my opinion, the sort of clause above would be better written like: The term "Computer-generated audiovisual impersonation" means an audiovisual record created or altered by computer generation in a manner that the record would falsely appear to a reasonable observer to be an authentic record of the actual speech or conduct of an individual;

e40 8y ago
If that's the case, any sort of creative editing, even just quick cuts, could fall under this Maybe that wouldn't be so bad. This technique has been used to deceive untold times.
- kbenson 8y ago
  I agree. A world where edited interviews must air with a disclaimer that it has been edited to remove certain portions might be extremely beneficial.
  - mcbits 8y ago
    Almost every prerecorded interview would carry the disclaimer, rendering it meaningless. Though it would be fun to see "fake reaction" every time they splice in footage of the interviewer nodding, smiling, scowling, etc.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      Almost every prerecorded interview presented as they currently are would carry the disclaimer. It might cause interviews to be presented differently (either ruthlessly trying to keep on topic, or with an easy link to the full interview), but even if not, having that disclaimer would be useful as an indicator that forced people to remember that what they are seeing might be out of context, and to look for that context. Finally, I think it would give people more tools for going after the purveyors of misleading content. Either they would need to have a disclaimer, which could be pointed to for those that accepted the content without reservation, or they could face repercussions. I see no problem with forcing people and organizations that purport to be representing a real situation but are instead presenting a view of that situation ideally suited to their own narrative to note they are doing so. Just because we've been conditioned to be tolerant of it in our media does not mean it's acceptable or needs to continue as it has.
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  A carefully drafted law against circulating that sort of material without a label might be alright. But I very much don't want to see this law, with low specificity and felony penalties, used to criminalize dubious editing. After all, we already have libel laws, so this is largely going to be used where those fail to apply. If you cut a real interview answer to align with a different question than was asked, is that altered to a false appearance? What if it's done in good faith, to streamline out an interviewer's request for clarification? If you share real, unedited footage of someone, but end it before they give a caveat to their comment, is that an authentic record of their speech? How about if you cut off a more serious inversion, like "what my opponents want you to think I'd say..." What about footage of a fight that starts too late and misrepresents the aggressor? Weirdest of all, if you edit an interview favorably, is that a felony? Since this isn't a libel law but a public-interest law, could cutting out a stupid answer or trimming filler words form an inauthentic record of someone's speech? (Actually, even worse: a slightly broad reading of 1B and 2A suggests that it's even possible to commit this crime without intent. The fake need not be purposefully misleading, and intent to facilitate criminal conduct doesn't necessarily require knowledge that the conduct facilitated would be criminal.) This law does a pretty good job of saying that it's illegal to computer generate a video of a politician taking a bribe. But even if deceptive editing ought to be illegal, I think accomplishing that with this definition and these penalties would be disastrously unclear.
Bartweiss 8y ago
I strongly agree. As far as I can tell, this wording covers any sort of misrepresentation set to film: creative editing, lookalikes, photo composites, etc. What constitutes undue creative editing is worryingly undefined; there are a lot of practices which create 'inauthentic records' for both innocent and malicious ends, like cutting segments out of an interview. And it seems to have seriously strange edge cases, since unlike libel rules it's not defined by harm to the person misrepresented - can you edit an interview favorably and be charged for that? I suppose the "intent to facilitate criminal/tortious conduct" clause is supposed to bypass all of that, but I'm not convinced it actually does so. §1041.b.2.A requires actual knowledge that a a record is false for distributors, but §1041.b.1 does not. Presumably the idea is that creating a deepfake shows knowledge, but the deepfake definition itself doesn't require intent by the creator; it's sufficient that the resulting record be false and seemingly authentic. If "intent to facilitate criminal conduct" is read in the same way as e.g. conspiracy statutes, it could connect intent to the conduct, not the criminality. (As a further bit of weirdness, it would then be legal to create without intent to distribute, and later distribute without knowledge. But if you create while intending to distribute, you're in hot water. An extreme example: someone rounds a corner and sees Person A punching Person B. They arrive too late to see that B initiated the fight and A acted in self defense. They quickly take some video so there's evidence, and after the fight ends send it to B, who requested it as evidence with which to file an assault charge. The taper has now created with intent to distribute what falsely appears to be an authentic record of A's conduct (intent not required). And they reasonably expected that the record would be used to affect the conduct of a state judicial proceeding (§1041.c.1.A). The videographer, without knowledge or intent, is now facing 10 years in prison for creation of a deep fake.

by beager 8y ago

e40 8y ago

If that's the case, any sort of creative editing, even just quick cuts, could fall under this Maybe that wouldn't be so bad. This technique has been used to deceive untold times.

kbenson 8y ago
I agree. A world where edited interviews must air with a disclaimer that it has been edited to remove certain portions might be extremely beneficial.
- mcbits 8y ago
  Almost every prerecorded interview would carry the disclaimer, rendering it meaningless. Though it would be fun to see "fake reaction" every time they splice in footage of the interviewer nodding, smiling, scowling, etc.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Almost every prerecorded interview presented as they currently are would carry the disclaimer. It might cause interviews to be presented differently (either ruthlessly trying to keep on topic, or with an easy link to the full interview), but even if not, having that disclaimer would be useful as an indicator that forced people to remember that what they are seeing might be out of context, and to look for that context. Finally, I think it would give people more tools for going after the purveyors of misleading content. Either they would need to have a disclaimer, which could be pointed to for those that accepted the content without reservation, or they could face repercussions. I see no problem with forcing people and organizations that purport to be representing a real situation but are instead presenting a view of that situation ideally suited to their own narrative to note they are doing so. Just because we've been conditioned to be tolerant of it in our media does not mean it's acceptable or needs to continue as it has.
Bartweiss 8y ago
A carefully drafted law against circulating that sort of material without a label might be alright. But I very much don't want to see this law, with low specificity and felony penalties, used to criminalize dubious editing. After all, we already have libel laws, so this is largely going to be used where those fail to apply. If you cut a real interview answer to align with a different question than was asked, is that altered to a false appearance? What if it's done in good faith, to streamline out an interviewer's request for clarification? If you share real, unedited footage of someone, but end it before they give a caveat to their comment, is that an authentic record of their speech? How about if you cut off a more serious inversion, like "what my opponents want you to think I'd say..." What about footage of a fight that starts too late and misrepresents the aggressor? Weirdest of all, if you edit an interview favorably, is that a felony? Since this isn't a libel law but a public-interest law, could cutting out a stupid answer or trimming filler words form an inauthentic record of someone's speech? (Actually, even worse: a slightly broad reading of 1B and 2A suggests that it's even possible to commit this crime without intent. The fake need not be purposefully misleading, and intent to facilitate criminal conduct doesn't necessarily require knowledge that the conduct facilitated would be criminal.) This law does a pretty good job of saying that it's illegal to computer generate a video of a politician taking a bribe. But even if deceptive editing ought to be illegal, I think accomplishing that with this definition and these penalties would be disastrously unclear.

Bartweiss 8y ago

I strongly agree. As far as I can tell, this wording covers any sort of misrepresentation set to film: creative editing, lookalikes, photo composites, etc. What constitutes undue creative editing is worryingly undefined; there are a lot of practices which create 'inauthentic records' for both innocent and malicious ends, like cutting segments out of an interview. And it seems to have seriously strange edge cases, since unlike libel rules it's not defined by harm to the person misrepresented - can you edit an interview favorably and be charged for that? I suppose the "intent to facilitate criminal/tortious conduct" clause is supposed to bypass all of that, but I'm not convinced it actually does so. §1041.b.2.A requires actual knowledge that a a record is false for distributors, but §1041.b.1 does not. Presumably the idea is that creating a deepfake shows knowledge, but the deepfake definition itself doesn't require intent by the creator; it's sufficient that the resulting record be false and seemingly authentic. If "intent to facilitate criminal conduct" is read in the same way as e.g. conspiracy statutes, it could connect intent to the conduct, not the criminality. (As a further bit of weirdness, it would then be legal to create without intent to distribute, and later distribute without knowledge. But if you create while intending to distribute, you're in hot water. An extreme example: someone rounds a corner and sees Person A punching Person B. They arrive too late to see that B initiated the fight and A acted in self defense. They quickly take some video so there's evidence, and after the fight ends send it to B, who requested it as evidence with which to file an assault charge. The taper has now created with intent to distribute what falsely appears to be an authentic record of A's conduct (intent not required). And they reasonably expected that the record would be used to affect the conduct of a state judicial proceeding (§1041.c.1.A). The videographer, without knowledge or intent, is now facing 10 years in prison for creation of a deep fake.