4 ms·

I'm afraid it is not more nuanced. As a private individual you have duties to your employer and those duties do not stop when you leave office.

youdontknowtho 8y ago
I have to ask if you are trolling. "as a private individual you have duties to your employer and those duties do not stop when you leave office"... Let's say that is true...I don't think it is, but let's say that it is...where does it end? Can I speak ill of them in public, like at a bar or cafe? What about on the phone? What if my employer contributes funds and energy to causes that are directly opposed to my well being? Being an employee isn't like being a citizen. My relationship with my employer can be entirely transactional. My relationship with the state is more permanent. I think I would like to keep it that way.
- JoshTriplett 8y ago
  > Let's say that is true...I don't think it is, but let's say that it is...where does it end? Can I speak ill of them in public, like at a bar or cafe? What about on the phone? What if my employer contributes funds and energy to causes that are directly opposed to my well being? Of course, you're free to speak ill of your employer at any time. And they're free to fire you for anything they hear about. It may be shortsighted of them to do so; with a good employer, you should be able to criticize in a productive way and work to change things. But that's not an issue of legality.
  - Luc 8y ago
    We're still talking about France, right? What employers get away with in the US isn't really relevant.
    - entity345 8y ago
      It's the same in France. As some Amazon employees have discovered...
      - Luc 8y ago
        It's not even close to being the same.
        entity345 8y ago
        The duties of an employee to his employers are essentially the same. And breaching those obligation is valid cause to be sacked. The user you replied to wrote: "Of course, you're free to speak ill of your employer at any time. And they're free to fire you for anything they hear about." That's broadly how it is in France (there is obviously a threshold with regards to what you say) Quick Google: "Un salarié critiquant violemment la politique des dirigeants de son entreprise et dénigrant son employeur ainsi que d'autres salariés. Faute grave. (Chambre sociale, arrêt n° 10-16929 du 27 septembre 2011)"
        Luc 8y ago
        Well, yeah, if you zoom out enough they are 'essentially', 'broadly' the same. If you use those modifiers I agree with you. Then when the case hits the courts the outcomes will be markedly different.
    - JoshTriplett 8y ago
      I didn't say "in the US" at any point. I was responding to someone suggesting that there was some kind of inherent right to speak ill of your employer with no repercussions.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- tokyodude 8y ago
  It is true in the sense that there is a legal concept called "duty of loyalty" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_loyalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_loyalty It should be pretty obvious you can't compete with your employer. If you want to compete then quit. You can't steal their trade secrets even if it's off duty. There's lots of other things covered by the duty of loyalty concept and if you explore them they almost all make perfect sense. It easy to see how the world wouldn't function without it.
  - youdontknowtho 8y ago
    That's for shareholders or corporate officers. That doesn't seem to cover employee/employer relationships. Am I reading that wrong?
HarryHirsch 8y ago
Your employer on the other has has duties to support political expression, free political expresion is a basic right in a democracy, as basic as it gets. Last time I checked, the Yellow Vests were not a prescribed movement. What I really do not get is the support for employers and the lack of support for labour on this site. Why is this?
- mnw21cam 8y ago
  Mmm. It's not a proscribed movement either.
kerng 8y ago
Its quite reasonable to not support your employer if there are disagreements. But one might be at the wrong job in the first place then, although not all have the luxury to choose. That's why there are unions and strikes and stuff. It's quite strange Amazon would fire them. Google didn't fire anyone for not supporting or cheering for various government work. But I guess, warehouse workers have less rights/power, and that's what this comes down to. Which strangely enough might also be the reason the went on the streets in the first place.

youdontknowtho 8y ago

I have to ask if you are trolling. "as a private individual you have duties to your employer and those duties do not stop when you leave office"... Let's say that is true...I don't think it is, but let's say that it is...where does it end? Can I speak ill of them in public, like at a bar or cafe? What about on the phone? What if my employer contributes funds and energy to causes that are directly opposed to my well being? Being an employee isn't like being a citizen. My relationship with my employer can be entirely transactional. My relationship with the state is more permanent. I think I would like to keep it that way.

JoshTriplett 8y ago
> Let's say that is true...I don't think it is, but let's say that it is...where does it end? Can I speak ill of them in public, like at a bar or cafe? What about on the phone? What if my employer contributes funds and energy to causes that are directly opposed to my well being? Of course, you're free to speak ill of your employer at any time. And they're free to fire you for anything they hear about. It may be shortsighted of them to do so; with a good employer, you should be able to criticize in a productive way and work to change things. But that's not an issue of legality.
- Luc 8y ago
  We're still talking about France, right? What employers get away with in the US isn't really relevant.
  - entity345 8y ago
    It's the same in France. As some Amazon employees have discovered...
    - Luc 8y ago
      It's not even close to being the same.
      - entity345 8y ago
        The duties of an employee to his employers are essentially the same. And breaching those obligation is valid cause to be sacked. The user you replied to wrote: "Of course, you're free to speak ill of your employer at any time. And they're free to fire you for anything they hear about." That's broadly how it is in France (there is obviously a threshold with regards to what you say) Quick Google: "Un salarié critiquant violemment la politique des dirigeants de son entreprise et dénigrant son employeur ainsi que d'autres salariés. Faute grave. (Chambre sociale, arrêt n° 10-16929 du 27 septembre 2011)"
        Luc 8y ago
        Well, yeah, if you zoom out enough they are 'essentially', 'broadly' the same. If you use those modifiers I agree with you. Then when the case hits the courts the outcomes will be markedly different.
  - JoshTriplett 8y ago
    I didn't say "in the US" at any point. I was responding to someone suggesting that there was some kind of inherent right to speak ill of your employer with no repercussions.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
tokyodude 8y ago
It is true in the sense that there is a legal concept called "duty of loyalty" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_loyalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_loyalty It should be pretty obvious you can't compete with your employer. If you want to compete then quit. You can't steal their trade secrets even if it's off duty. There's lots of other things covered by the duty of loyalty concept and if you explore them they almost all make perfect sense. It easy to see how the world wouldn't function without it.
- youdontknowtho 8y ago
  That's for shareholders or corporate officers. That doesn't seem to cover employee/employer relationships. Am I reading that wrong?

HarryHirsch 8y ago

Your employer on the other has has duties to support political expression, free political expresion is a basic right in a democracy, as basic as it gets. Last time I checked, the Yellow Vests were not a prescribed movement. What I really do not get is the support for employers and the lack of support for labour on this site. Why is this?

mnw21cam 8y ago
Mmm. It's not a proscribed movement either.

kerng 8y ago

Its quite reasonable to not support your employer if there are disagreements. But one might be at the wrong job in the first place then, although not all have the luxury to choose. That's why there are unions and strikes and stuff. It's quite strange Amazon would fire them. Google didn't fire anyone for not supporting or cheering for various government work. But I guess, warehouse workers have less rights/power, and that's what this comes down to. Which strangely enough might also be the reason the went on the streets in the first place.