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I'd think about the german providers again if I were you. They are forced to gather data about you as well (https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesverfa

by VvR-Ox 8y ago

I'd think about the german providers again if I were you. They are forced to gather data about you as well (https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesverfassungsgericht-Mail-Provider-muss-IP-Adressen-herausgeben-4291456.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesverfassungsger...) and since the government is taking measures to further invade your privacy it's not that safe there anymore. I've watched the changes of their laws over many years and I can tell you this: Germany is not the country of privacy love (anymore). Given a decade or two without any changes in this development they'll very likely become like China some day.

mcbetz 8y ago
Privacy is not a virtue in itself but a tradeoff between saving individuals and their data and public security (i.e. not helping human traffickers by totally blocking law enforcement). I continue to trust a country where privacy issues are discussed and ruled objectively at the highest court and where law enforcers can only obtain IP addresses for severe crimes - mentioned in the article: drug trading, illegal arms trading. Germany is nowhere near China with a civil society so active that every privacy threatening action creates strong counter action (i.e. new Bavarian police law). No, civil society cannot prevent everything that the powerful state wants, but neither can state representatives do as they wish (unlike the CP in China). These providers also don't sell my data as Google does, because I pay for the service. It still strikes a good balance for me. Edit: replaced "they" with "state representatives"
- VvR-Ox 8y ago
  FYI: The bavarian police law has passed though many people tried to stop it. That also happened with a lot of other laws throughout the last years. On the other hand people also love stuff like AMZN echo and trust all information to their smartphones. What's going to stop this development then? A miracle? How do you know providers don't sell data? Did they tell you that or promise it somehow? :-D The obvious conclusion of this development is that we need technical solutions which work without the consent of governments and without putting trust into private companies.

by VvR-Ox 8y ago

mcbetz 8y ago

Privacy is not a virtue in itself but a tradeoff between saving individuals and their data and public security (i.e. not helping human traffickers by totally blocking law enforcement). I continue to trust a country where privacy issues are discussed and ruled objectively at the highest court and where law enforcers can only obtain IP addresses for severe crimes - mentioned in the article: drug trading, illegal arms trading. Germany is nowhere near China with a civil society so active that every privacy threatening action creates strong counter action (i.e. new Bavarian police law). No, civil society cannot prevent everything that the powerful state wants, but neither can state representatives do as they wish (unlike the CP in China). These providers also don't sell my data as Google does, because I pay for the service. It still strikes a good balance for me. Edit: replaced "they" with "state representatives"

VvR-Ox 8y ago
FYI: The bavarian police law has passed though many people tried to stop it. That also happened with a lot of other laws throughout the last years. On the other hand people also love stuff like AMZN echo and trust all information to their smartphones. What's going to stop this development then? A miracle? How do you know providers don't sell data? Did they tell you that or promise it somehow? :-D The obvious conclusion of this development is that we need technical solutions which work without the consent of governments and without putting trust into private companies.