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> The defining characteristic of religion is faith... That's actually not true. One clue here is that many religions do not ask for faith, which is to say one

> The defining characteristic of religion is faith... That's actually not true. One clue here is that many religions do not ask for faith, which is to say one does not actually observe a demand of faith universally in religions. Faith per se is not observable, so it would not do as a defining characteristic of religion. Frequently, religions only ask for ritual observance. This is the defining characteristic of religion -- ritual observance that affirms a person's commitment to a community and its values. Whether people "really believe" or not has no simple effect on whether the ritual serves to reinforce shared values or not. Many people feel bonded to a community and its values even when engaging with a mythology that is obviously fictitious, as for example when people go to the desert to burn the man every year; or dress up like aliens and head to Star Trek Vegas.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
> Many people feel bonded to a community and its values even when engaging with a mythology that is obviously fictitious, as for example when people go to the desert to burn the man every year; or dress up like aliens and head to Star Trek Vegas. Seriously? You are including hobby clubs of sorts into the definition of religions in order to support your claim that many religions do not ask for faith? So, atheist associations with regular meetings are religions, too, then, I suppose?
- solidsnack9000 8y ago
  It is probably better to think of most religions as very dramatic hobby clubs. Just having regular meetings is not enough to be "performative" or "ritualistic". What if the atheist association always began every meeting with a hymn to Richard Dawkins, and then a ceremonial swim of a little model HMS Beagle around a miniature island, always widdershins (opposite to the sun)? This would be the beginnings of religion.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago

> Many people feel bonded to a community and its values even when engaging with a mythology that is obviously fictitious, as for example when people go to the desert to burn the man every year; or dress up like aliens and head to Star Trek Vegas. Seriously? You are including hobby clubs of sorts into the definition of religions in order to support your claim that many religions do not ask for faith? So, atheist associations with regular meetings are religions, too, then, I suppose?

solidsnack9000 8y ago
It is probably better to think of most religions as very dramatic hobby clubs. Just having regular meetings is not enough to be "performative" or "ritualistic". What if the atheist association always began every meeting with a hymn to Richard Dawkins, and then a ceremonial swim of a little model HMS Beagle around a miniature island, always widdershins (opposite to the sun)? This would be the beginnings of religion.