4 ms·

Sort of interesting that google and facebook are trying (or have tried) to rethink our messaging concepts. Are they trying to fix something that isn't broken? S

Sort of interesting that google and facebook are trying (or have tried) to rethink our messaging concepts. Are they trying to fix something that isn't broken? Sometimes I think it needs work but it seems like they are trying whole new ideas that may or may not work.

zacharycohn 16y ago
Keep in mind email wasn't "broken" when everyone was using Outlook, and then Gmail came along.
- ajg1977 16y ago
  Gmail's threading and search are awesome, but it's hardly like email clients are "broken" without them.
- danilocampos 16y ago
  Ehh, I don't know. I think just as many, if not more, were using Hotmail/Yahoo Mail, or their ISP's webmail service. And in those cases, email was definitely broken. Stingy mailbox quotas (25 MB!), shitty ads, cluttered UX, on and on.
- axod 16y ago
  You obviously have never tried "search" in outlook.
- seiji 16y ago
  Email was better before Outlook. Outlook brought us: ubiquitous top posting, lack of signature delimiters, ubiquitous email-as-microsoft-word-documents, multi-megabyte email threads where every new email includes every previous email, and viruworms. It's not really a "and then Gmail came along" issue either. My numbers from yesterday (about 250k messages total): 40% - yahoo.com 18% - hotmail.com 17% - gmail.com 4% - live.com 3% - aol.com - - Other
  - tseabrooks 16y ago
    I see numbers like this often and they make me wonder how active these various users are. I have a few old hotmail accounts and a couple old yahoo accounts.. 3 of which I know are still active... But I check those addresses annually and they mostly exist to handle my spam. Is Yahoo's 40% active people? When was the last time they checked their email? Do those people check their email via pop? What is the volume of useful communications for the users of these various systems. Do your numbers above represent addresses you've collected or just a rehash of the general numbers on the topic? Is there any way to get more fine grained details about these various suer groups?
- axod 16y ago
  You obviously have never tried "search" in outlook.
finiteloop 16y ago
The nice part of the new Facebook messages product is that it isn't a standalone or competing messaging product, unlike many other products you are alluding too. It unifies SMS, email, and IM, and it interoperates with all of them. So if your friend emails you, you can reply by SMS or by IM, and they will receive it back in their email inbox. Likewise, if your friend is online when you email them, it will pop up like an IM, so they can reply in real-time. I think this type of product has been a growing need for people for a while. Literally every single one of my younger cousins only uses SMS and IM to communicate and every single one of my older relatives uses only email, so you end up having to choose a communication protocol based on recipient rather than just choosing a person and composing a message. It still has a number of quirks, but I personally think this is a really nice product. (I am admittedly biased, but I am being honest.)
jasonlotito 16y ago
Email is like the horse and cart now, and these attempted solutions are the cars. Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved. That being said, you ask if they are trying to fix something that isn't broken. But, if you look at what they are trying to solve, it very much is broken. Email, forums, messages, comments, blog posts, SMS, etc. Communication online is disjointed and broken. A single system that can pull it all together would do a lot. It's why I was/am so hopeful about Wave.
- axod 16y ago
  That's because all those methods achieve different things. Email is completely different to SMS, which is completely different to blog posts, forums, etc They all have totally different dynamics. A single unified system would be horrible.
  - NZ_Matt 16y ago
    SMS, Email, IM and FB messages all have similar dynamics. A unified system combining these four makes a lot of sense and wouldn't be horrible.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    Email, SMS, blog posts, forums, comments here on HN: All are exactly the same thing at the core. They are all text. Some might allow images or other media. Some might allow attachments. But they are all essentially the same: all elements of a conversation or content. The only difference between them is how they are created or displayed, and that's a UI feature. You're probably making the mistake of assuming that things would have to change in your use of SMS, blog posts, forums, comments or YouTube videos to utilize a single system. That's not the case. The benefit isn't that it changes the way you do things, but that you can do more than what you do now.
    - axod 16y ago
      > " The only difference between them is how they are created or displayed, and that's a UI feature." That's incorrect IMHO. It's also completely different how people use them. If I want to ask my wife to get something extra from the shops, I won't email her. I'll SMS. Each medium carries with it 'urgency', whether you expect a response now or in the future, whether it's open for discussion in a group, etc etc These things didn't just come about by chance, they came about because users want several different methods of communication depending on what they want to say, and their expectations regarding response/discussion etc It's like saying that the internet will make books obsolete. They serve completely different purposes. To an engineer SMS/email/forums etc may be the same. But socially they're completely different.
brown9-2 16y ago
It depends on your point of view. According to the video on their blog post, their team thinks it's somewhat broken that you have to keep a mental lookup table in your head of the contacts in your life and the best way to reach them - who you should send a SMS to in order to get their attention, who you should email, who you should send a Facebook message, etc. They want to provide an easier and unified face for personal messaging. Personally I like the idea.

zacharycohn 16y ago

Keep in mind email wasn't "broken" when everyone was using Outlook, and then Gmail came along.

ajg1977 16y ago
Gmail's threading and search are awesome, but it's hardly like email clients are "broken" without them.
danilocampos 16y ago
Ehh, I don't know. I think just as many, if not more, were using Hotmail/Yahoo Mail, or their ISP's webmail service. And in those cases, email was definitely broken. Stingy mailbox quotas (25 MB!), shitty ads, cluttered UX, on and on.
axod 16y ago
You obviously have never tried "search" in outlook.
seiji 16y ago
Email was better before Outlook. Outlook brought us: ubiquitous top posting, lack of signature delimiters, ubiquitous email-as-microsoft-word-documents, multi-megabyte email threads where every new email includes every previous email, and viruworms. It's not really a "and then Gmail came along" issue either. My numbers from yesterday (about 250k messages total): 40% - yahoo.com 18% - hotmail.com 17% - gmail.com 4% - live.com 3% - aol.com - - Other
- tseabrooks 16y ago
  I see numbers like this often and they make me wonder how active these various users are. I have a few old hotmail accounts and a couple old yahoo accounts.. 3 of which I know are still active... But I check those addresses annually and they mostly exist to handle my spam. Is Yahoo's 40% active people? When was the last time they checked their email? Do those people check their email via pop? What is the volume of useful communications for the users of these various systems. Do your numbers above represent addresses you've collected or just a rehash of the general numbers on the topic? Is there any way to get more fine grained details about these various suer groups?
axod 16y ago
You obviously have never tried "search" in outlook.

finiteloop 16y ago

The nice part of the new Facebook messages product is that it isn't a standalone or competing messaging product, unlike many other products you are alluding too. It unifies SMS, email, and IM, and it interoperates with all of them. So if your friend emails you, you can reply by SMS or by IM, and they will receive it back in their email inbox. Likewise, if your friend is online when you email them, it will pop up like an IM, so they can reply in real-time. I think this type of product has been a growing need for people for a while. Literally every single one of my younger cousins only uses SMS and IM to communicate and every single one of my older relatives uses only email, so you end up having to choose a communication protocol based on recipient rather than just choosing a person and composing a message. It still has a number of quirks, but I personally think this is a really nice product. (I am admittedly biased, but I am being honest.)

jasonlotito 16y ago

Email is like the horse and cart now, and these attempted solutions are the cars. Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved. That being said, you ask if they are trying to fix something that isn't broken. But, if you look at what they are trying to solve, it very much is broken. Email, forums, messages, comments, blog posts, SMS, etc. Communication online is disjointed and broken. A single system that can pull it all together would do a lot. It's why I was/am so hopeful about Wave.

axod 16y ago
That's because all those methods achieve different things. Email is completely different to SMS, which is completely different to blog posts, forums, etc They all have totally different dynamics. A single unified system would be horrible.
- NZ_Matt 16y ago
  SMS, Email, IM and FB messages all have similar dynamics. A unified system combining these four makes a lot of sense and wouldn't be horrible.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  Email, SMS, blog posts, forums, comments here on HN: All are exactly the same thing at the core. They are all text. Some might allow images or other media. Some might allow attachments. But they are all essentially the same: all elements of a conversation or content. The only difference between them is how they are created or displayed, and that's a UI feature. You're probably making the mistake of assuming that things would have to change in your use of SMS, blog posts, forums, comments or YouTube videos to utilize a single system. That's not the case. The benefit isn't that it changes the way you do things, but that you can do more than what you do now.
  - axod 16y ago
    > " The only difference between them is how they are created or displayed, and that's a UI feature." That's incorrect IMHO. It's also completely different how people use them. If I want to ask my wife to get something extra from the shops, I won't email her. I'll SMS. Each medium carries with it 'urgency', whether you expect a response now or in the future, whether it's open for discussion in a group, etc etc These things didn't just come about by chance, they came about because users want several different methods of communication depending on what they want to say, and their expectations regarding response/discussion etc It's like saying that the internet will make books obsolete. They serve completely different purposes. To an engineer SMS/email/forums etc may be the same. But socially they're completely different.

brown9-2 16y ago

It depends on your point of view. According to the video on their blog post, their team thinks it's somewhat broken that you have to keep a mental lookup table in your head of the contacts in your life and the best way to reach them - who you should send a SMS to in order to get their attention, who you should email, who you should send a Facebook message, etc. They want to provide an easier and unified face for personal messaging. Personally I like the idea.