5 ms·

When every subway stop has elevators, then we cannot talk. Until then, try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. When the sidewalks are cleared of co

When every subway stop has elevators, then we cannot talk. Until then, try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. When the sidewalks are cleared of construction scaffolding, bike share racks blocking sidewalks or crazy grown adults dressing like Spider-Man, or psychotic homeless harassing people, then maybe we can talk. As far as climate change; if NYC went to zero CO2, it wouldn’t make a single bit of difference compared to a single day’s worth of pollution compared to a small Chinese or Indian city. Perhaps a tariff on all goods and services from China or India would be more effective than banning cars in NYC. Banning cars from NYC would have a cosmetic effect on climate change and nothing more. And, in case you weren’t aware, cars already pay huge costs in NYC. It costs over $10 just to cross a bridge or tunnel into NYC. They don’t pay a toll to leave NYC: so someone is getting money just for a car to enter the city.

gpm 8y ago
> try transporting kids or groceries using the subway Err. I was transported plenty as a kid on the subway without using elevators, so were many other kids. Groceries... generally you just walk. I live in a less dense city and it's never been a problem walking to the grocery store. Including for my parents when I was a kid. > sidewalks are cleared of... I mean, getting rid of cars means more room for sidewalks mean they are defacto cleared of this stuff. The reason it's a problem right now is they are packed into the same 5 feet as the pedestrians. > As far as climate change; if NYC went to zero CO2... I suspect you are right. I put what I consider the least compelling reasons at the bottom. > cars already pay huge costs in NYC. It costs over $10 $10 really isn't that much money... as demonstrated by the number of people who pay it. Understand that when I say the right number might be "ridiculous" I do mean "ridiculous". I'm avoiding saying specific numbers because then I have to justify them, but think thousands, possibly large numbers of thousands.
smileysteve 8y ago
> Until then, try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. I live in Atlanta, a place the NYTimes often writes about our lack of income mobility because of a lack of mobility[1]. I also live 2 blocks from the southernmost transit (midtown) connected grocery store that gets a lot of business from the poorer south side of the city. So, when you say "try transporting kids or groceries on the subway" I (and transitively, the nytimes) ask, which kids? because it's not the 20% of Atlantans that are low income and that have kids and multiple hourly wage jobs that can readily afford the costs of a car -- and they're already doing it, in a city more sprawled than NYC and other cities. [1]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-income-ladder-location-matters.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-inco...
Johnny555 8y ago
try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. When I lived in an area where I could commute by subway, I had a full service grocery store and several smaller specialty markets (a produce market, a butcher and a bakery) on my way home (well I had to get out one stop early to pass the butcher). I see plenty of parents with kids on the subway -- though none of them have the full-size strollers you see coming out of the backs of SUVs. So instead of making one large shopping trip every week or two, I'd stop several times a week on my way home. Though now I just buy groceries online and have them delivered, in the rare cases where I do want to go to the supermarket, I take my bike.
- masonic 8y ago
  Though now I just buy groceries online and have them delivered ... which requires more road use than people stopping by the store on the way home. (Round trip vs. one way)
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    Does it? A truck uses around the same road space as a car, so if it removes one person in the neighborhood's round trip to the store (not everyone has a grocery store on their way home from work), then it's a net win. Even if everyone makes a small side trip to go to the store on the way home from work, that one truck can replace ~50 side-trips to the store. Though in my case, I usually alternate between bus and bike to work, so if I did drive to the store, it'd be a round trip. If I bike to the store, it means a round-trip from home since I usually have one or 2 commuter panniers on the bike when I go to work, and don't want to haul the empty trailer all the way to work and back.
    - masonic 8y ago
      Does it? A truck uses around the same road space as a car Well, if you ignore fuel consumption, pollution, and parking impact. Anyway... so if it removes one person in the neighborhood's round trip to the store No, I was referring to the specific "on my way home" use case you referred to... which is the typical case. If you stop by the store on the way home, you aren't adding a trip in either direction. Having delivery adds two trips, from and to. Two trips vs. zero.

gpm 8y ago

> try transporting kids or groceries using the subway Err. I was transported plenty as a kid on the subway without using elevators, so were many other kids. Groceries... generally you just walk. I live in a less dense city and it's never been a problem walking to the grocery store. Including for my parents when I was a kid. > sidewalks are cleared of... I mean, getting rid of cars means more room for sidewalks mean they are defacto cleared of this stuff. The reason it's a problem right now is they are packed into the same 5 feet as the pedestrians. > As far as climate change; if NYC went to zero CO2... I suspect you are right. I put what I consider the least compelling reasons at the bottom. > cars already pay huge costs in NYC. It costs over $10 $10 really isn't that much money... as demonstrated by the number of people who pay it. Understand that when I say the right number might be "ridiculous" I do mean "ridiculous". I'm avoiding saying specific numbers because then I have to justify them, but think thousands, possibly large numbers of thousands.

smileysteve 8y ago

> Until then, try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. I live in Atlanta, a place the NYTimes often writes about our lack of income mobility because of a lack of mobility[1]. I also live 2 blocks from the southernmost transit (midtown) connected grocery store that gets a lot of business from the poorer south side of the city. So, when you say "try transporting kids or groceries on the subway" I (and transitively, the nytimes) ask, which kids? because it's not the 20% of Atlantans that are low income and that have kids and multiple hourly wage jobs that can readily afford the costs of a car -- and they're already doing it, in a city more sprawled than NYC and other cities. [1]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-income-ladder-location-matters.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-inco...

Johnny555 8y ago

try transporting kids or groceries using the subway. When I lived in an area where I could commute by subway, I had a full service grocery store and several smaller specialty markets (a produce market, a butcher and a bakery) on my way home (well I had to get out one stop early to pass the butcher). I see plenty of parents with kids on the subway -- though none of them have the full-size strollers you see coming out of the backs of SUVs. So instead of making one large shopping trip every week or two, I'd stop several times a week on my way home. Though now I just buy groceries online and have them delivered, in the rare cases where I do want to go to the supermarket, I take my bike.

masonic 8y ago
Though now I just buy groceries online and have them delivered ... which requires more road use than people stopping by the store on the way home. (Round trip vs. one way)
- Johnny555 8y ago
  Does it? A truck uses around the same road space as a car, so if it removes one person in the neighborhood's round trip to the store (not everyone has a grocery store on their way home from work), then it's a net win. Even if everyone makes a small side trip to go to the store on the way home from work, that one truck can replace ~50 side-trips to the store. Though in my case, I usually alternate between bus and bike to work, so if I did drive to the store, it'd be a round trip. If I bike to the store, it means a round-trip from home since I usually have one or 2 commuter panniers on the bike when I go to work, and don't want to haul the empty trailer all the way to work and back.
  - masonic 8y ago
    Does it? A truck uses around the same road space as a car Well, if you ignore fuel consumption, pollution, and parking impact. Anyway... so if it removes one person in the neighborhood's round trip to the store No, I was referring to the specific "on my way home" use case you referred to... which is the typical case. If you stop by the store on the way home, you aren't adding a trip in either direction. Having delivery adds two trips, from and to. Two trips vs. zero.