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>But monetary “incentives” are in general quite a terrible system for eliciting good work. I'm glad I don't work for you.

by lsc 8y ago

fbelzile 8y ago
I think what jacobolus is saying is after a certain point, more money won't necessarily lead to better quality of work. [0] https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work
- lsc 8y ago
  My argument is that if you pay less than your competitors, you can't expect to hire and retain the best people. edit: More to the point, I think this idea that people don't work for money is one pushed by management at the expense of the workers, and when I hear employers putting that out there, I assume those employers are... bad to work for, because they think that by being manipulative, they can get you to work for less. Usually, those employers have less pleasant cultures and pay less than employers who simply pay more than their competition.
  - makapuf 8y ago
    I guess since those mangers are generally well paid they must be bad at what they do.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    Much of the best work I know about was done as people’s hobby projects, self-selected school projects, self-selected projects funded by some kind of patronage system with money not directly tied to output, etc. I don’t employ anyone, so you don’t need to worry about whether I would hire you to keep doing your hobby and kill your love for it.
- m0zg 8y ago
  That point, however, is a lot higher than zero, more so in areas with a high cost of living, and still more so for a 19 year old who doesn't have any savings to fall back on and has to establish his earning baseline.
madeofpalk 8y ago
No, I think parts of this are very true. Apple Retail doesn't pay their staff commissions so there's no incentive to drive expensive sales that the staff personally profit from (partly I guess because of just how expensive and seasonal Apple product sales are?). Myself, and a few other developers, refuse to monetise our third-party apps for the video game Destiny because doing it for free means we have no obligation to any customers. If I was being paid to do this, I would enjoy it a lot less.

>But monetary “incentives” are in general quite a terrible system for eliciting good work. I'm glad I don't work for you.

by lsc 8y ago

>But monetary “incentives” are in general quite a terrible system for eliciting good work. I'm glad I don't work for you.

fbelzile 8y ago

I think what jacobolus is saying is after a certain point, more money won't necessarily lead to better quality of work. [0] https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work

lsc 8y ago
My argument is that if you pay less than your competitors, you can't expect to hire and retain the best people. edit: More to the point, I think this idea that people don't work for money is one pushed by management at the expense of the workers, and when I hear employers putting that out there, I assume those employers are... bad to work for, because they think that by being manipulative, they can get you to work for less. Usually, those employers have less pleasant cultures and pay less than employers who simply pay more than their competition.
- makapuf 8y ago
  I guess since those mangers are generally well paid they must be bad at what they do.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Much of the best work I know about was done as people’s hobby projects, self-selected school projects, self-selected projects funded by some kind of patronage system with money not directly tied to output, etc. I don’t employ anyone, so you don’t need to worry about whether I would hire you to keep doing your hobby and kill your love for it.
m0zg 8y ago
That point, however, is a lot higher than zero, more so in areas with a high cost of living, and still more so for a 19 year old who doesn't have any savings to fall back on and has to establish his earning baseline.

madeofpalk 8y ago

No, I think parts of this are very true. Apple Retail doesn't pay their staff commissions so there's no incentive to drive expensive sales that the staff personally profit from (partly I guess because of just how expensive and seasonal Apple product sales are?). Myself, and a few other developers, refuse to monetise our third-party apps for the video game Destiny because doing it for free means we have no obligation to any customers. If I was being paid to do this, I would enjoy it a lot less.