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Caloric restriction (extreme dieting) is well known to increase lifespan. Intermittent fasting shows tentative promise.

by hopler 8y ago

onetimemanytime 8y ago
Would a too extreme diet do permanent harm, or is our body used to bouts of near starvation? The survivor bias makes sense, those that would have died at 65-75 years maybe died then when tested by the hardships.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- rawoke083600 8y ago
  fasting creates autophagy which is a real positive benefit.
- DanBC 8y ago
  >Would a too extreme diet do permanent harm Yes, which is why anorexia is so harmful, and why early intervention for anorexia is so important.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
tzs 8y ago
This is just a guess, but I'd expect that most people who survived the camps did not decide to continue afterwards to eat like they were still there. Wouldn't that limit the longevity benefits?
- dogma1138 8y ago
  It’s possible that a long starvation period has induced lower life time caloric intake just not on the same levels, it could be that the period alone was enough to induce some epigenetic changes I don’t know why it’s being downvoted it could potentially be a cause behind this discrepancy.
  - Pharmakon 8y ago
    Because other historical famines and atrocities don’t seem to yield the same outcome, and because it’s really just tacking a current fad onto the story without anything like evidence. After all, “it’s possible” covers such a huge variety of possibilities that it’s meaningless without statements of likelihood. It is after all possible that I’m an advanced AI, or that your mouse will tunnel a meter to the left. It’s more likely though that I’m just some guy, and your mouse fell off the table.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      I’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes.
      - Pharmakon 8y ago
        I’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. To be clear, mine is the null hypothesis. I suggest that no extraordinary or new information can be gleaned from the life expectancy of Holocaust survivors at present. This constrasts with any claim that this information provides a possible bit of support for the notion that starvation can lead to extended life expectancy. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. Lenin’s USSR between ‘21-‘22 (9 million dead), China in ‘27 (About 3 million dead), Stalin’s Holodomor of Ukraine ‘32-‘34 (8 million dead), Henan, China in ‘43 (5 million dead), Bengal ‘43 (2-3 million dead), Mao’s China ‘58-‘62 (10-30 million dead), The DPRK ‘95-‘99 (about 3 million dead and the lasting negative impact is well studied), and many more from Biafra to Dust Bowl era Oklahoma. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes. I agree that it’s hard to find a comparison of people leading a “modern Western life,” but plenty of Holocaust survivors didn’t either. Moreover the negative impacts of starvation are well documented, and “longer life expectancy” isn’t in it. Arrayed against that we have a handful of mouse studies, those very creatures we can cure of cancer... for all that doesn’t apply to us.
myth_drannon 8y ago
Then all the residents of Leningrad would be noticeably longer living than the population of USSR. That didn't happen to my knowledge.

Caloric restriction (extreme dieting) is well known to increase lifespan. Intermittent fasting shows tentative promise.

by hopler 8y ago

Caloric restriction (extreme dieting) is well known to increase lifespan. Intermittent fasting shows tentative promise.

Would a too extreme diet do permanent harm, or is our body used to bouts of near starvation? The survivor bias makes sense, those that would have died at 65-75 years maybe died then when tested by the hardships.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
rawoke083600 8y ago
fasting creates autophagy which is a real positive benefit.
DanBC 8y ago
>Would a too extreme diet do permanent harm Yes, which is why anorexia is so harmful, and why early intervention for anorexia is so important.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

tzs 8y ago

This is just a guess, but I'd expect that most people who survived the camps did not decide to continue afterwards to eat like they were still there. Wouldn't that limit the longevity benefits?

dogma1138 8y ago
It’s possible that a long starvation period has induced lower life time caloric intake just not on the same levels, it could be that the period alone was enough to induce some epigenetic changes I don’t know why it’s being downvoted it could potentially be a cause behind this discrepancy.
- Pharmakon 8y ago
  Because other historical famines and atrocities don’t seem to yield the same outcome, and because it’s really just tacking a current fad onto the story without anything like evidence. After all, “it’s possible” covers such a huge variety of possibilities that it’s meaningless without statements of likelihood. It is after all possible that I’m an advanced AI, or that your mouse will tunnel a meter to the left. It’s more likely though that I’m just some guy, and your mouse fell off the table.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    I’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes.
    - Pharmakon 8y ago
      I’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. To be clear, mine is the null hypothesis. I suggest that no extraordinary or new information can be gleaned from the life expectancy of Holocaust survivors at present. This constrasts with any claim that this information provides a possible bit of support for the notion that starvation can lead to extended life expectancy. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. Lenin’s USSR between ‘21-‘22 (9 million dead), China in ‘27 (About 3 million dead), Stalin’s Holodomor of Ukraine ‘32-‘34 (8 million dead), Henan, China in ‘43 (5 million dead), Bengal ‘43 (2-3 million dead), Mao’s China ‘58-‘62 (10-30 million dead), The DPRK ‘95-‘99 (about 3 million dead and the lasting negative impact is well studied), and many more from Biafra to Dust Bowl era Oklahoma. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes. I agree that it’s hard to find a comparison of people leading a “modern Western life,” but plenty of Holocaust survivors didn’t either. Moreover the negative impacts of starvation are well documented, and “longer life expectancy” isn’t in it. Arrayed against that we have a handful of mouse studies, those very creatures we can cure of cancer... for all that doesn’t apply to us.

myth_drannon 8y ago

Then all the residents of Leningrad would be noticeably longer living than the population of USSR. That didn't happen to my knowledge.