4 ms·
The question is if it’s just a simple selection bias or did the stress of living under those conditions have had biological effects that are advantageous to lon
by dogma1138 8y ago
The question is if it’s just a simple selection bias or did the stress of living under those conditions have had biological effects that are advantageous to longer life span.
We know that cellular stress response and stress proteins have a positive effect on some functions that could induce longer life span, these tend to be most often related to heat and cold shock which is likely one of the key reasons behind why many cultures developed customs that induce heat or cold shock such as sauna and ice dipping.
So my personal bet is that this goes way beyond simple selection bias that pre-selected the fittest and has likely involved biological changes that were favorable for longevity.
The question now is how to identify these changes and mechanisms and replicate them without having to force someone to live through literal hell.
- hopler 8y agoCaloric restriction (extreme dieting) is well known to increase lifespan. Intermittent fasting shows tentative promise.
- onetimemanytime 8y agoWould a too extreme diet do permanent harm, or is our body used to bouts of near starvation? The survivor bias makes sense, those that would have died at 65-75 years maybe died then when tested by the hardships.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rawoke083600 8y agofasting creates autophagy which is a real positive benefit.
- DanBC 8y ago>Would a too extreme diet do permanent harm Yes, which is why anorexia is so harmful, and why early intervention for anorexia is so important.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tzs 8y agoThis is just a guess, but I'd expect that most people who survived the camps did not decide to continue afterwards to eat like they were still there. Wouldn't that limit the longevity benefits?
- dogma1138 8y agoIt’s possible that a long starvation period has induced lower life time caloric intake just not on the same levels, it could be that the period alone was enough to induce some epigenetic changes I don’t know why it’s being downvoted it could potentially be a cause behind this discrepancy.
- Pharmakon 8y agoBecause other historical famines and atrocities don’t seem to yield the same outcome, and because it’s really just tacking a current fad onto the story without anything like evidence. After all, “it’s possible” covers such a huge variety of possibilities that it’s meaningless without statements of likelihood. It is after all possible that I’m an advanced AI, or that your mouse will tunnel a meter to the left. It’s more likely though that I’m just some guy, and your mouse fell off the table.
- dogma1138 8y agoI’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes.
- Pharmakon 8y agoI’m not sure there is sufficient data to support your hypothesis. Famines in the modern world are rare, they still exists in some places but those places aren’t exactly stable and have high life expectancy to begin with. To be clear, mine is the null hypothesis. I suggest that no extraordinary or new information can be gleaned from the life expectancy of Holocaust survivors at present. This constrasts with any claim that this information provides a possible bit of support for the notion that starvation can lead to extended life expectancy. Famines in historic times were both not rare, periodic, and there isn’t nearly enough data to show if there was any benefit to the survivors other than less competition for resources after the famine has subsided. Lenin’s USSR between ‘21-‘22 (9 million dead), China in ‘27 (About 3 million dead), Stalin’s Holodomor of Ukraine ‘32-‘34 (8 million dead), Henan, China in ‘43 (5 million dead), Bengal ‘43 (2-3 million dead), Mao’s China ‘58-‘62 (10-30 million dead), The DPRK ‘95-‘99 (about 3 million dead and the lasting negative impact is well studied), and many more from Biafra to Dust Bowl era Oklahoma. I’m not sure there has been an event like the holocaust where so many people went on to live what essentially became modern western life with all the advantages it provides as far as life expectancy goes. I agree that it’s hard to find a comparison of people leading a “modern Western life,” but plenty of Holocaust survivors didn’t either. Moreover the negative impacts of starvation are well documented, and “longer life expectancy” isn’t in it. Arrayed against that we have a handful of mouse studies, those very creatures we can cure of cancer... for all that doesn’t apply to us.
- myth_drannon 8y agoThen all the residents of Leningrad would be noticeably longer living than the population of USSR. That didn't happen to my knowledge.
- Reedx 8y agoIn a word: antifragile. Though could be both antifragility and selection bias at play.