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Fuel taxes are just another version of taxing the wrong thing. People using gasoline for e.g. yard equipment aren't using the roads, but they're effectively pay

by avar 8y ago

Fuel taxes are just another version of taxing the wrong thing. People using gasoline for e.g. yard equipment aren't using the roads, but they're effectively paying road tax to trim their hedge. Someone who owns a Tesla also isn't paying their road tax. Taxes and tolls should be based on what/where/when you drive. Someone driving in circles in downtown Amsterdam in the middle of the day is causing a lot more externalities than someone doing the same thing in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. Nothing about saying fees shouldn't be externalized is an argument that there shouldn't be investment in infrastructure. Although I think you'll find that once car infrastructure would have to pay real property tax and pay for its externalities (including pollution etc.) we'd need less road infrastructure. You'd get more density, more things shipped by train instead of trucks etc.

Johnny555 8y ago
People using gasoline for e.g. yard equipment aren't using the roads, but they're effectively paying road tax to trim their hedge It's legal to use untaxed (undyed) fuel for off-road uses, but the quantities are so low that it's not worth the distribution system for it. So usually it's only used by large consumers (i.e. farmers and other consumers with large off-road fuel usage) Someone who owns a Tesla also isn't paying their road tax. That will change next year when California will start charging a $100 EV fee for car registrations. It's still less than the $176 a 10,000 mile/year 30mpg driver will pay in gas tax, but it's not "nothing". Though since EV's are typically more expensive than the equivalent conventional car, they'll pay a higher VLF fee. So for example, $10,000 in extra value means $65/year more VLF tax so that EV will be paying around $165/year. I'd rather see a milage + weight based tax.
pas 8y ago
> in downtown Amsterdam in the middle of the day is causing a lot more externalities than someone doing the same thing in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. how to track that in a privacy friendly way?
mcv 8y ago
> Fuel taxes are just another version of taxing the wrong thing. It's not really the wrong thing, it's a different thing. Fuel taxes make a lot of sense as carbon taxes to pay for the pollution you're causing. Ultimately, though, it's complicated to tax everybody exactly for the societal costs they're causing. Taxing just the weight of the car doesn't take usage into account. Taxing fuel doesn't sufficiently take weight into account. To tax people correctly for road use you'd have to keep detailed track of how much they use their car, and that may get rather invasive into people's privacy. That said, it's pretty clear that cars cause more externalities than they're being taxed for.

by avar 8y ago

Johnny555 8y ago

People using gasoline for e.g. yard equipment aren't using the roads, but they're effectively paying road tax to trim their hedge It's legal to use untaxed (undyed) fuel for off-road uses, but the quantities are so low that it's not worth the distribution system for it. So usually it's only used by large consumers (i.e. farmers and other consumers with large off-road fuel usage) Someone who owns a Tesla also isn't paying their road tax. That will change next year when California will start charging a $100 EV fee for car registrations. It's still less than the $176 a 10,000 mile/year 30mpg driver will pay in gas tax, but it's not "nothing". Though since EV's are typically more expensive than the equivalent conventional car, they'll pay a higher VLF fee. So for example, $10,000 in extra value means $65/year more VLF tax so that EV will be paying around $165/year. I'd rather see a milage + weight based tax.

pas 8y ago

> in downtown Amsterdam in the middle of the day is causing a lot more externalities than someone doing the same thing in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. how to track that in a privacy friendly way?

mcv 8y ago

> Fuel taxes are just another version of taxing the wrong thing. It's not really the wrong thing, it's a different thing. Fuel taxes make a lot of sense as carbon taxes to pay for the pollution you're causing. Ultimately, though, it's complicated to tax everybody exactly for the societal costs they're causing. Taxing just the weight of the car doesn't take usage into account. Taxing fuel doesn't sufficiently take weight into account. To tax people correctly for road use you'd have to keep detailed track of how much they use their car, and that may get rather invasive into people's privacy. That said, it's pretty clear that cars cause more externalities than they're being taxed for.