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For the people who believe this is fair and just- Should engineers and programmers pay more money for the same laptop as an art student? I'm unsure if this pr

For the people who believe this is fair and just- Should engineers and programmers pay more money for the same laptop as an art student? I'm unsure if this pricing should only exist in the public sector or should extend to private services. Looking to hear your rationale. I'm one of those, treat everyone equal, types. Would like to hear your reason.

mberning 8y ago
Their point on registering vehicles by weight is the only sane way of doing it. You pay commensurate with the wear and tear your vehicle puts on the road. Doing it based on income or vehicle value is ridiculous. You already get dinged when you pay tax, now they want to double ding you? What a load of crap.
SweetLlamaMyth 8y ago
Many manufacturers DO have discounted student pricing (not that it's publicly mandated).
- astura 8y ago
  Student discounts, military/veteran + family discounts, employee discounts (negotiated pricing), bulk purchase discounts, preferred customer discounts, subscription discounts (like Amazon Prime), senior discounts, promotional discounts, price matching, negotiated pricing, courtesy discounts, employee discounts, retired employee+family discounts, low income subsidies, certain tax exemptions for certain populations, etc. The idea we all pay the exact same for the same product/service is... not accurate.
oftenwrong 8y ago
In the US, the idea of fairness is basically divided on political lines. On the "right", people think fairness is equality. On the "left", people think fairness is equity. Helpful graphic: http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IISC_EqualityEquity.png http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads...
- cuillevel3 8y ago
  I always liked this one about the school system: https://imgur.com/a/aikYqxg https://imgur.com/a/aikYqxg
adolph 8y ago
Maybe in an ideal efficient world we could pay for all things based on the value we derive from them. This is really hard to measure though, so organizations use different proxies for the value a consumer might derive from a product, like enterprise, individual and student pricing or geo-fencing. Since these are very imperfect proxies for consumer value there are often arbitrage opportunities such as re-importing textbooks. Additionally, the imperfections lead organizations to cross subsidization of products, such as the difference between prescription drug prices in different countries.
jacques_chester 8y ago
> Should engineers and programmers pay more money for the same laptop as an art student? No, of course not, if it's the same laptop. But suppose there is a laptop tax of $300. If the engineer and art student buy the same $3000 laptop, that's 10%. But let's be realistic here: art students will probably have a $1000 or even $500 laptop. Suddenly their tax rate is 30% or 60%, compared to the engineer's 10%. Excises and levies are not flat taxes. They are regressive in structure. Whether you agree with progressive taxation is one matter, but I feel as though everyone agrees that taxation should at least be linear to the thing being taxed.
jabl 8y ago
> I'm one of those, treat everyone equal, types. Would like to hear your reason. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine that you are born as any random person in a society. You could be born as a white male of exceptional intelligence with 1% rich parents, or you could be born as a girl of a minority race to junkie parents and suffer from mental health issues your entire life. Now, without knowing what kind of person you're born as, design a just society in terms of, say, the level of income redistribution, tax-provided health care, or whatnot. Getting back to your original question of whether somebody should pay more for a laptop than somebody else; well, IF you accept (some amount of) income redistribution, it's more of a technical question how to implement it. I imagine it'd be easier to implement with income redistribution, social spending on low-income citizens or whatnot rather than having wealth- or income-dependent prices on everything.
- esotericn 8y ago
  The problem with such an argument (imagine that you're born as...) is that it presupposes an arbitrary line based on the limits of your imagination. You could just as well be born a farm animal, or a blade of grass. Absurd? Perhaps. It's no more absurd to me than attempting to imagine being born as a Frenchman.
  - cuillevel3 8y ago
    Human rights apply to farm animals now? :)
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    It's just as easy to imagine yourself living as a blade of grass as it is living as another human? The line between humans and other species doesn't seem that arbitrary.
  - pas 8y ago
    You don't have to imagine. You have to consider for fairness. This argument is usually attributed to Rawls. He wrote extensively about it in his A Theory of Justice (1971).

mberning 8y ago

Their point on registering vehicles by weight is the only sane way of doing it. You pay commensurate with the wear and tear your vehicle puts on the road. Doing it based on income or vehicle value is ridiculous. You already get dinged when you pay tax, now they want to double ding you? What a load of crap.

SweetLlamaMyth 8y ago

Many manufacturers DO have discounted student pricing (not that it's publicly mandated).

astura 8y ago
Student discounts, military/veteran + family discounts, employee discounts (negotiated pricing), bulk purchase discounts, preferred customer discounts, subscription discounts (like Amazon Prime), senior discounts, promotional discounts, price matching, negotiated pricing, courtesy discounts, employee discounts, retired employee+family discounts, low income subsidies, certain tax exemptions for certain populations, etc. The idea we all pay the exact same for the same product/service is... not accurate.

oftenwrong 8y ago

In the US, the idea of fairness is basically divided on political lines. On the "right", people think fairness is equality. On the "left", people think fairness is equity. Helpful graphic: http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IISC_EqualityEquity.png http://i2.wp.com/interactioninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads...

cuillevel3 8y ago
I always liked this one about the school system: https://imgur.com/a/aikYqxg https://imgur.com/a/aikYqxg

adolph 8y ago

Maybe in an ideal efficient world we could pay for all things based on the value we derive from them. This is really hard to measure though, so organizations use different proxies for the value a consumer might derive from a product, like enterprise, individual and student pricing or geo-fencing. Since these are very imperfect proxies for consumer value there are often arbitrage opportunities such as re-importing textbooks. Additionally, the imperfections lead organizations to cross subsidization of products, such as the difference between prescription drug prices in different countries.

jacques_chester 8y ago

> Should engineers and programmers pay more money for the same laptop as an art student? No, of course not, if it's the same laptop. But suppose there is a laptop tax of $300. If the engineer and art student buy the same $3000 laptop, that's 10%. But let's be realistic here: art students will probably have a $1000 or even $500 laptop. Suddenly their tax rate is 30% or 60%, compared to the engineer's 10%. Excises and levies are not flat taxes. They are regressive in structure. Whether you agree with progressive taxation is one matter, but I feel as though everyone agrees that taxation should at least be linear to the thing being taxed.

jabl 8y ago

> I'm one of those, treat everyone equal, types. Would like to hear your reason. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine that you are born as any random person in a society. You could be born as a white male of exceptional intelligence with 1% rich parents, or you could be born as a girl of a minority race to junkie parents and suffer from mental health issues your entire life. Now, without knowing what kind of person you're born as, design a just society in terms of, say, the level of income redistribution, tax-provided health care, or whatnot. Getting back to your original question of whether somebody should pay more for a laptop than somebody else; well, IF you accept (some amount of) income redistribution, it's more of a technical question how to implement it. I imagine it'd be easier to implement with income redistribution, social spending on low-income citizens or whatnot rather than having wealth- or income-dependent prices on everything.

esotericn 8y ago
The problem with such an argument (imagine that you're born as...) is that it presupposes an arbitrary line based on the limits of your imagination. You could just as well be born a farm animal, or a blade of grass. Absurd? Perhaps. It's no more absurd to me than attempting to imagine being born as a Frenchman.
- cuillevel3 8y ago
  Human rights apply to farm animals now? :)
- Johnny555 8y ago
  It's just as easy to imagine yourself living as a blade of grass as it is living as another human? The line between humans and other species doesn't seem that arbitrary.
- pas 8y ago
  You don't have to imagine. You have to consider for fairness. This argument is usually attributed to Rawls. He wrote extensively about it in his A Theory of Justice (1971).