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When there are so many software options that don't involve buying from companies that use these kind of tactics, it's difficult to see how this will work out fo

When there are so many software options that don't involve buying from companies that use these kind of tactics, it's difficult to see how this will work out for Oracle in the long term. Sure in the short-term they'll rinse companies for large amounts of money, but people tend to remember when that's been done to them, and aren't exactly keen to have it happen again. Whilst I have no direct experience, a quick search indicates that IBM have similar practices. I wonder when/if that'll bleed across into Redhat.

threeseed 8y ago
This practice has been going on for decades. And Oracle isn't close to be the only company. But don't worry you shouldn't feel sympathy for enterprise companies as they are often just as bad as the vendors.
- raesene9 8y ago
  Whilst I may or may not feel sympathy for the companies themselves (although not everyone who uses Oracle software is an "enterprise" by any means), I can feel sympathy for the poor IT teams who would have to deal with a surprise audit from a vendor.
- chris_wot 8y ago
  Has deployments of Oracle software gone up over the long term, or are people beginning to migrate away from Oracle software?
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Just from my limit experience they are very slowly migrating away as they transition from on-premise to the cloud. Not just Oracle but pretty much anything that is standalone software.
pjmlp 8y ago
Easy, Oracle bashers keep forgetting that Oracle and IBM pay the majority of salaries on OpenJDK developers. Then again, there are plenty of other JVMs available since the 2000's, and many customers do pay for them.
- raesene9 8y ago
  That's an interesting characterization, that people who don't agree with Oracle's approach to licensing are "Oracle Bashers"? Do you feel that the surprise audit approach to license compliance is a good one?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Yes, it quite common in the industry to track down on piracy use, Oracle is not alone in doing surprise audits. There are even international organizations that collaborate with national police on that regard, https://www.bsa.org/ https://www.bsa.org/
    - raesene9 8y ago
      Indeed it happens, but my question was more given your initial post, do you think it's a good way to manage licensing? To me it provokes an adversarial relationship between software vendors and their customers and is quite likely a factor in the rise of the use of Open Source software in enterprise. If the propietary software industry is to continue to prosper, it seems likely that annoying their customers with this approach to licensing is not a good one. Now you could argue that this will have a knock on effect on Open source as many devs are employed by software companies, but that won't necessarily stop it happening.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        The failure of pure open source, moving away from GPL and increase in dual licensing for enterprise software proves otherwise.
        8y ago
setquk 8y ago
My first proper job involved oracle. This put me off ever using it again from a licensing, technology and ethical perspective. Just the army of clueless but certified vulture contractors explained the ecosystem. This is how you slowly burn a business but Larry’s going to be dead then so he doesn’t give a fuck.
pdimitar 8y ago
> Sure in the short-term they'll rinse companies for large amounts of money, but people tend to remember when that's been done to them, and aren't exactly keen to have it happen again. The tech personnel, yes. The guys who accept corporate sales pitches, no. They only hear "Oracle" and are thinking "big name, nobody gets fired for buying that".
gaius 8y ago
but people tend to remember when that's been done to them, and aren't exactly keen to have it happen again. Companies stick with Oracle and IBM for multi-decade stretches, maybe the move to cloud will be what it takes to dislodge them, but then again, in a world where Azure, AWS and GCP exist some people still choose Oracle and IBM, so there's no explaining it. If I were a CIO I would announce that this year's bonuses will be funded from savings on Oracle licenses, then sit back and let nature take its course.

threeseed 8y ago

This practice has been going on for decades. And Oracle isn't close to be the only company. But don't worry you shouldn't feel sympathy for enterprise companies as they are often just as bad as the vendors.

raesene9 8y ago
Whilst I may or may not feel sympathy for the companies themselves (although not everyone who uses Oracle software is an "enterprise" by any means), I can feel sympathy for the poor IT teams who would have to deal with a surprise audit from a vendor.
chris_wot 8y ago
Has deployments of Oracle software gone up over the long term, or are people beginning to migrate away from Oracle software?
- threeseed 8y ago
  Just from my limit experience they are very slowly migrating away as they transition from on-premise to the cloud. Not just Oracle but pretty much anything that is standalone software.

pjmlp 8y ago

Easy, Oracle bashers keep forgetting that Oracle and IBM pay the majority of salaries on OpenJDK developers. Then again, there are plenty of other JVMs available since the 2000's, and many customers do pay for them.

raesene9 8y ago
That's an interesting characterization, that people who don't agree with Oracle's approach to licensing are "Oracle Bashers"? Do you feel that the surprise audit approach to license compliance is a good one?
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Yes, it quite common in the industry to track down on piracy use, Oracle is not alone in doing surprise audits. There are even international organizations that collaborate with national police on that regard, https://www.bsa.org/ https://www.bsa.org/
  - raesene9 8y ago
    Indeed it happens, but my question was more given your initial post, do you think it's a good way to manage licensing? To me it provokes an adversarial relationship between software vendors and their customers and is quite likely a factor in the rise of the use of Open Source software in enterprise. If the propietary software industry is to continue to prosper, it seems likely that annoying their customers with this approach to licensing is not a good one. Now you could argue that this will have a knock on effect on Open source as many devs are employed by software companies, but that won't necessarily stop it happening.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      The failure of pure open source, moving away from GPL and increase in dual licensing for enterprise software proves otherwise.
      - 8y ago

setquk 8y ago

My first proper job involved oracle. This put me off ever using it again from a licensing, technology and ethical perspective. Just the army of clueless but certified vulture contractors explained the ecosystem. This is how you slowly burn a business but Larry’s going to be dead then so he doesn’t give a fuck.

pdimitar 8y ago

> Sure in the short-term they'll rinse companies for large amounts of money, but people tend to remember when that's been done to them, and aren't exactly keen to have it happen again. The tech personnel, yes. The guys who accept corporate sales pitches, no. They only hear "Oracle" and are thinking "big name, nobody gets fired for buying that".

gaius 8y ago

but people tend to remember when that's been done to them, and aren't exactly keen to have it happen again. Companies stick with Oracle and IBM for multi-decade stretches, maybe the move to cloud will be what it takes to dislodge them, but then again, in a world where Azure, AWS and GCP exist some people still choose Oracle and IBM, so there's no explaining it. If I were a CIO I would announce that this year's bonuses will be funded from savings on Oracle licenses, then sit back and let nature take its course.