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They aren't tech companies. It's like asking why satellite makers don't build their own rocket. The algorithms used in most cars whether it's deep RL or somethi

They aren't tech companies. It's like asking why satellite makers don't build their own rocket. The algorithms used in most cars whether it's deep RL or something even more specific isn't easily understood and worst yet scalable by many people. Say nothing for the custom hardware google uses in the form of TPUs.

ThePhysicist 8y ago
While they are surely no leading innovators in deep learning saying they are not tech companies is a bit ridiculous, as they innovate in many areas of technology. Sure, VW and Daimler don’t produce their own chips (as far as I’m aware) as they rely on partners like Bosch to do it for them. Bosch sensors and ICs are found in many devices btw (even iPhones I think). So I’d argue there’s plenty of innovation here, just nothing that is very visible for most folks in “tech”. Btw Tesla’s cars use electronic and mechanical parts from around 40 different German suppliers if I remember correctly.
- orbifold 8y ago
  They absolutely design their own chips, typically the precise details are outsourced. But they are actively developing chips from MCUs (motor control units) up to simple things like seat heating sensors. At the moment they have pushed the German government to invest billions in German made inference accelerators for cars, to not be solely dependent on foreign chips by NVIDIA and Intel for that.
deepnotderp 8y ago
Nobody who is sane uses deep reinforcement learning for autonomous vehicles, far too dangerous. Remember, the first 99% is easy, it's the last .999% that's hard.
ascar 8y ago
That's a very narrow definition of tech companies. I wouldn't be surprised if VW, BMW and Daimler together employ more software engineers than Google or Apple. Don't forget that modern cars use over a hundred micro-controllers.
- zmb_ 8y ago
  That's true, but only indirectly. Since these companies mainly assemble cars from components designed and built by suppliers, the software engineers are working for suppliers like Bosch. If you talk to the tech people from, e.g., BMW, their roles are managing budgets and projects implemented by external partners. This is also why they want self driving to be just another standard function that they can buy from a supplier, while letting the suppliers compete away their margins.
- Matthias247 8y ago
  They don’t, and the parent is right that they are no software companies. Cars carry an enormous amount of software, but most of it is contracted and built by tier1 suppliers like Bosch. I worked at one of the mentioned companies and was the only person in my department (of >500 engineers) who had production software run software running inside cars. In the meantime they realized they need to get more into software, but it takes a lot of time to change course for tankers.
- simfoo 8y ago
  VW (in this case AUDI) founded AID (http://aid-driving.eu/ http://aid-driving.eu/) as a software centric powerhouse to work on autonomous driving for all of VW. They employ lots of software engineers directly (I work there)

ThePhysicist 8y ago

While they are surely no leading innovators in deep learning saying they are not tech companies is a bit ridiculous, as they innovate in many areas of technology. Sure, VW and Daimler don’t produce their own chips (as far as I’m aware) as they rely on partners like Bosch to do it for them. Bosch sensors and ICs are found in many devices btw (even iPhones I think). So I’d argue there’s plenty of innovation here, just nothing that is very visible for most folks in “tech”. Btw Tesla’s cars use electronic and mechanical parts from around 40 different German suppliers if I remember correctly.

orbifold 8y ago
They absolutely design their own chips, typically the precise details are outsourced. But they are actively developing chips from MCUs (motor control units) up to simple things like seat heating sensors. At the moment they have pushed the German government to invest billions in German made inference accelerators for cars, to not be solely dependent on foreign chips by NVIDIA and Intel for that.

deepnotderp 8y ago

Nobody who is sane uses deep reinforcement learning for autonomous vehicles, far too dangerous. Remember, the first 99% is easy, it's the last .999% that's hard.

ascar 8y ago

That's a very narrow definition of tech companies. I wouldn't be surprised if VW, BMW and Daimler together employ more software engineers than Google or Apple. Don't forget that modern cars use over a hundred micro-controllers.

zmb_ 8y ago
That's true, but only indirectly. Since these companies mainly assemble cars from components designed and built by suppliers, the software engineers are working for suppliers like Bosch. If you talk to the tech people from, e.g., BMW, their roles are managing budgets and projects implemented by external partners. This is also why they want self driving to be just another standard function that they can buy from a supplier, while letting the suppliers compete away their margins.
Matthias247 8y ago
They don’t, and the parent is right that they are no software companies. Cars carry an enormous amount of software, but most of it is contracted and built by tier1 suppliers like Bosch. I worked at one of the mentioned companies and was the only person in my department (of >500 engineers) who had production software run software running inside cars. In the meantime they realized they need to get more into software, but it takes a lot of time to change course for tankers.
simfoo 8y ago
VW (in this case AUDI) founded AID (http://aid-driving.eu/ http://aid-driving.eu/) as a software centric powerhouse to work on autonomous driving for all of VW. They employ lots of software engineers directly (I work there)