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> Lots of features that are essential in people's everyday use case need Javascript in the web. I also disable javascript by default. And yet none of the websi

> Lots of features that are essential in people's everyday use case need Javascript in the web. I also disable javascript by default. And yet none of the websites that I enable javascipt on have essential javascritpy features, but they merely don't present the content in plain html. > empowers developers to put features that are useful to the user is the primary focus No, there is and always was a tension between usability and developers putting up new features. If you truly focus on user experience you definitely can't empower developers to invent features, you have to constrain them and force them to follow UX guidelines.

GhostVII 8y ago
Do you never buy anything online? Or play an online game? Or use Google maps? I can think of lots of websites that I regularly use where JavaScript is important. I agree it is best to limit it, but it definitely has lots of uses.
- dooglius 8y ago
  FWIW I generally take out my phone and use the Android Google Maps app, because it is considerably faster than waiting for the web version to load.
- userbinator 8y ago
  With the exception of certain games, none of those other applications require JavaScript. Form submissions and such have been part of HTML for a long time, and map viewing most certainly doesn't need JS. See this comment from 3 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10872194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10872194 Unfortunately the map images in the article there no longer work because Google has decided to "deprecate" that API, but there's absolutely nothing about serving what is essentially a large tiled image that requires the capability to run arbitrary code on the client. In fact, here's a tile URL I just found that still works: http://mt1.google.com/vt/lyrs=y&x=1325&y=3143&z=13 http://mt1.google.com/vt/lyrs=y&x=1325&y=3143&z=13 JavaScript is like Flash: useful or even essential for some things, but far too overused these days.
  - GhostVII 8y ago
    Sure, map viewing definitely doesn't need JavaScript, but Google Maps definitely does. I don't see how you could reasonably implement something like Google street view without JavaScript. Even just having the different locations on the map fade in and out of view as you zoom requires JavaScript, as far as I know. Personally, I don't want to have to use a stripped down version of maps, I want to be able to go into street view and see the locations, and smoothly see more detail as I zoom in. Perhaps a better example is video calling. Definitely can't do that without JavaScript. My point is that disabling JavaScript entirely eliminates several classes of websites. I think it is better to have reasonable limits to JavaScript than make these types of websites impossible.
    - c22 8y ago
      Why does this functionality have to be embedded in a website? I use google earth and skype to look at maps and make video calls. I don't feel like I'm missing out.
hilbert42 8y ago
> And yet none of the websites that I enable javascipt on have essential javascritpy features, but they merely don't present the content in plain html. You're right, that can be a significant problem. Often what I do is to turn JS on and let the page load then turn it off again. When I encounter Smart Alec sites that try to catch people like me out by refreshing JS every few seconds, I either toggle network access to the internet off or capture the text by various other means. There's always a solution one way or the other.

GhostVII 8y ago

Do you never buy anything online? Or play an online game? Or use Google maps? I can think of lots of websites that I regularly use where JavaScript is important. I agree it is best to limit it, but it definitely has lots of uses.

dooglius 8y ago
FWIW I generally take out my phone and use the Android Google Maps app, because it is considerably faster than waiting for the web version to load.
userbinator 8y ago
With the exception of certain games, none of those other applications require JavaScript. Form submissions and such have been part of HTML for a long time, and map viewing most certainly doesn't need JS. See this comment from 3 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10872194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10872194 Unfortunately the map images in the article there no longer work because Google has decided to "deprecate" that API, but there's absolutely nothing about serving what is essentially a large tiled image that requires the capability to run arbitrary code on the client. In fact, here's a tile URL I just found that still works: http://mt1.google.com/vt/lyrs=y&x=1325&y=3143&z=13 http://mt1.google.com/vt/lyrs=y&x=1325&y=3143&z=13 JavaScript is like Flash: useful or even essential for some things, but far too overused these days.
- GhostVII 8y ago
  Sure, map viewing definitely doesn't need JavaScript, but Google Maps definitely does. I don't see how you could reasonably implement something like Google street view without JavaScript. Even just having the different locations on the map fade in and out of view as you zoom requires JavaScript, as far as I know. Personally, I don't want to have to use a stripped down version of maps, I want to be able to go into street view and see the locations, and smoothly see more detail as I zoom in. Perhaps a better example is video calling. Definitely can't do that without JavaScript. My point is that disabling JavaScript entirely eliminates several classes of websites. I think it is better to have reasonable limits to JavaScript than make these types of websites impossible.
  - c22 8y ago
    Why does this functionality have to be embedded in a website? I use google earth and skype to look at maps and make video calls. I don't feel like I'm missing out.

hilbert42 8y ago

> And yet none of the websites that I enable javascipt on have essential javascritpy features, but they merely don't present the content in plain html. You're right, that can be a significant problem. Often what I do is to turn JS on and let the page load then turn it off again. When I encounter Smart Alec sites that try to catch people like me out by refreshing JS every few seconds, I either toggle network access to the internet off or capture the text by various other means. There's always a solution one way or the other.