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I ended up booking two flights recently because Kayak sent me a "booking failed" email after I tried once, it failed, then tried again, and it worked. Then an h

I ended up booking two flights recently because Kayak sent me a "booking failed" email after I tried once, it failed, then tried again, and it worked. Then an hour later I got an email from Kayak saying my flight booking had failed. So of course I booked another flight. They would NOT admit the slightest wrongdoing. Never using them again.

netsharc 8y ago
If you're never using them again, why not do a chargeback? (Apparently services like Uber or Airbnb ban you if you do this, so it's "mutually assured destruction"). Or call the airline and tell them how Kayak messed up.
- jliptzin 8y ago
  I find it hard to believe there is any combination of words you can say to an airline company to successfully refund a non-refundable ticket.
  - ivan_gammel 8y ago
    Did it once in Russia. There’s a law requiring a refund if passenger is sick.
  - karthikb 8y ago
    Many airlines (ex. United Airlines) allow refunds within 24 hours of purchase, regardless of general rules of the ticket.
    - sjjshzvuiajhz 8y ago
      I think this is legally required in the US, if you book directly with the airline. This is a solid reason to never book through the flight aggregators.
      - boudin 8y ago
        It's also required in the EU. It happened to me with British Airways
      - lozaning 8y ago
        AmEx provides me this benefit when I book through them.
      - muststopmyths 8y ago
        Expedia provides the same cancellation period as well. It saved my butt once last fall when I clicked on the wrong month in the calendar. Plus I have used it for other flight cancellations with them.
    - untog 8y ago
      They legally have to. Always amazes me to see airlines boast of their 24 hour refund policy that they don't actually have any choice over.
      - hawaiianbrah 8y ago
        I mean, clearly a lot of people don’t know it’s the law, so it doesn’t hurt advertising it as a perk. Especially if the other guys don’t advertise it.
        setr 8y ago
        This was also the strategy of ep 1 of mad men — lucky strike’s “it’s toasted” slogan — if you say it first, then despite all tobacco being toasted, it looks like everyone else is just copying you.
  - xfitm3 8y ago
    It can be done. I've cancelled non-refundable flights for medical reasons. There is also a 24 hour period where you can cancel your flight, which I believe is by law. Summary: https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/all-major-u-s-airlines-offer-free-cancellations-within-24-hours-except-one/ https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/all-major-u-s-ai... Full text here: http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Notice_24hour_hold_final20130530.pdf http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Notice_24hour_ho...
    - qw 8y ago
      As far as I know, the 24 hour cancellation rule is not international. I think it is mostly applicable to North America. If this was an international flight, it is possible that the law did not apply. European airlines have different policies regarding cancellations, often based on the type of fare you select. Sometimes you get a full refund, other times only the taxes and fees.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - fouc 8y ago
        It applies to american-based airfare companies so if you book with kayak, orbitz, expedia, priceline, etc then there's a 24 hour cancellation period
        newsbinator 8y ago
        I'd love to get a source on that for the next time I encounter this situation.
        tgb 8y ago
        It's easy to find: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/notice-24hour-reservation https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/notice-24hour-res... Edit: I should add that I don't know if this specifically applies to Kayak, etc. I'm not sure if that's what you were specifically looking for.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - gerdesj 8y ago
    Depends on jurisdiction. https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesse... might be handy for UK citizens as a starting point.
  - cabaalis 8y ago
    I believe that "non-refundable" and "as-is" are going the way of the dodo with the millennial generation. It seems past generations were much more willing to accept large corporation policies than the current ones.
    - SteveNuts 8y ago
      Because this generation knows how to raise hell on social media if they've been legitimately wronged.
    - listenallyall 8y ago
      I'm curious what makes you think this. I think millennials have sat back and allowed hospitality & travel companies to get away with much more than ever. Hotels and car rentals now have non-refundable rates, something that didn't exist 10 years ago. Many hotels add resort fees, extra service fees, charge $7 for a bottle of water, etc., that they never would have tried 10+ years ago. Airlines have long had non-refundable fares, but penalties have increased tremendously. Anecdote: a friend of mine booked a weekend trip in 2009, the return flight was Sunday 12:30 am. When I pointed out to her that was essentially Saturday night, she got on the phone to change her ticket to the last flight out that same Sunday. $40 change fee. Today that would almost surely be $100+ on any US-based airline. All these extra fees aren't aimed at millennials specifically, but I sure don't see them resisting enough to have any of these companies reverse or reduce some of their fees in response to consumer complaints or dissatisfaction.
  - bane 8y ago
    It's even worse than that. My brother-in-law, who doesn't speak much English, accidentally selected the wrong option at a check-in kiosk in Las Vegas and was upsold some kind of "premier" ticket option that let him board a flight first for the low low price of $42. After he realized he made a mistake he sought out the airline staff and they told him he had to go to some website which showed that he had checked in, but not the extra charge or option. Eventually he made his way to a service desk at the airport and they told him to call a number after he landed on the other side. The "customer service" representative then informed him that since he had already taken the flight, he couldn't get a refund. I helped him file a complaint with the airline explaining the English and the lack of help from airline staff and the confusing remediation directions he received. They responded very quickly informing him that he would not be refunded but to please fly again with them.
    - caminante 8y ago
      Did he accept and realize the advance boarding? My read is that he probably screwed up and could've asked more questions at the kiosk. In addition, you're a supportive BIL!
      - bane 8y ago
        He accepted, thought about it, then went directly to the airline staff for help. They basically told him to phone/web/email and ignored him. The kiosk was one of those touchscreen things so nobody to ask when he was making the mistake. It is ultimately his mistake, but at the same time, they're keeping >$40 he accidentally spent so he could board an aircraft 3 minutes early. It's kind of silly.
  - gnopgnip 8y ago
    If it is for a ticket originating from the US you can cancel and get a refund as long as it is within 24 hours of booking the ticket, and the ticket is at least 7 days out
- jzwinck 8y ago
  Air Asia, like many discount airlines, charges different fees depending on payment method. Paying by bank transfer carries roughly half the fee of paying by credit card. So a lot of people can't do chargebacks (which is part of the reason bank transfers have lower fees in the first place, less risk for the airline).
- panarky 8y ago
  This actually works. I was flying AirAsia to Sulawesi last year, and 2 days before my flight the tsunami hit. Hotels destroyed, tourists evacuated from the island. Even though they're trying to get people off the island, AirAsia refused to refund or even rebook my flight because it was nonrefundable. Filed a chargeback, and got a response from AirAsia via the credit card issuer offering a refund if I would withdraw the chargeback. Never again.
mav3rick 8y ago
That sucks. No transactions ? I think companies like Kayak can get way with loose consistency guarantees and just push the onus on the user or have some money saved to reimburse you. You should file a dispute with your CC.
jayalpha 8y ago
This has happened with me and Sri Lanka airlines (tricky to book when they block VPNs, you are in China and they have a google captcha.). I ended up with two tickets, one via their website, one via Vayama. I complained and Sri Lanka airlines reimbursed me. Even got a free business class upgrade when I checked in :-)
healsjnr1 8y ago
I work on a hotel OTA and this and similar situations consume a disproportionate amount of our dev time, and I believe it should. So much travel software relies on third parties and problems with eventual consistency (read timeouts) mean that often either the customer is told their booking failed when it succeeded, or it fails after payment is taken. We try to ensure that our support tools make these situations, and the resolutions, as clear as possible to our customer agents. Ultimately, we are on the hook for this booking so it's in our interest to get it resolved for the customer so they are happy. Our stats show that this only happens to 0.5% of bookings, but if they aren't handled well, they take up a much larger amount of support time and then end up with an unhappy customer. Over the last few years I've come realise that this is a fundamental cost of building travel software. You can't gloss over these problems or push them back on the customer, otherwise you simply won't have any customers left.
- otterley 8y ago
  0.5% is 1 out of 200 bookings. That's a pretty high failure rate!

netsharc 8y ago

If you're never using them again, why not do a chargeback? (Apparently services like Uber or Airbnb ban you if you do this, so it's "mutually assured destruction"). Or call the airline and tell them how Kayak messed up.

jliptzin 8y ago
I find it hard to believe there is any combination of words you can say to an airline company to successfully refund a non-refundable ticket.
- ivan_gammel 8y ago
  Did it once in Russia. There’s a law requiring a refund if passenger is sick.
- karthikb 8y ago
  Many airlines (ex. United Airlines) allow refunds within 24 hours of purchase, regardless of general rules of the ticket.
  - sjjshzvuiajhz 8y ago
    I think this is legally required in the US, if you book directly with the airline. This is a solid reason to never book through the flight aggregators.
    - boudin 8y ago
      It's also required in the EU. It happened to me with British Airways
    - lozaning 8y ago
      AmEx provides me this benefit when I book through them.
    - muststopmyths 8y ago
      Expedia provides the same cancellation period as well. It saved my butt once last fall when I clicked on the wrong month in the calendar. Plus I have used it for other flight cancellations with them.
  - untog 8y ago
    They legally have to. Always amazes me to see airlines boast of their 24 hour refund policy that they don't actually have any choice over.
    - hawaiianbrah 8y ago
      I mean, clearly a lot of people don’t know it’s the law, so it doesn’t hurt advertising it as a perk. Especially if the other guys don’t advertise it.
      - setr 8y ago
        This was also the strategy of ep 1 of mad men — lucky strike’s “it’s toasted” slogan — if you say it first, then despite all tobacco being toasted, it looks like everyone else is just copying you.
- xfitm3 8y ago
  It can be done. I've cancelled non-refundable flights for medical reasons. There is also a 24 hour period where you can cancel your flight, which I believe is by law. Summary: https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/all-major-u-s-airlines-offer-free-cancellations-within-24-hours-except-one/ https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/all-major-u-s-ai... Full text here: http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Notice_24hour_hold_final20130530.pdf http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/Notice_24hour_ho...
  - qw 8y ago
    As far as I know, the 24 hour cancellation rule is not international. I think it is mostly applicable to North America. If this was an international flight, it is possible that the law did not apply. European airlines have different policies regarding cancellations, often based on the type of fare you select. Sometimes you get a full refund, other times only the taxes and fees.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - fouc 8y ago
      It applies to american-based airfare companies so if you book with kayak, orbitz, expedia, priceline, etc then there's a 24 hour cancellation period
      - newsbinator 8y ago
        I'd love to get a source on that for the next time I encounter this situation.
        tgb 8y ago
        It's easy to find: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/notice-24hour-reservation https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/notice-24hour-res... Edit: I should add that I don't know if this specifically applies to Kayak, etc. I'm not sure if that's what you were specifically looking for.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- gerdesj 8y ago
  Depends on jurisdiction. https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesse... might be handy for UK citizens as a starting point.
- cabaalis 8y ago
  I believe that "non-refundable" and "as-is" are going the way of the dodo with the millennial generation. It seems past generations were much more willing to accept large corporation policies than the current ones.
  - SteveNuts 8y ago
    Because this generation knows how to raise hell on social media if they've been legitimately wronged.
  - listenallyall 8y ago
    I'm curious what makes you think this. I think millennials have sat back and allowed hospitality & travel companies to get away with much more than ever. Hotels and car rentals now have non-refundable rates, something that didn't exist 10 years ago. Many hotels add resort fees, extra service fees, charge $7 for a bottle of water, etc., that they never would have tried 10+ years ago. Airlines have long had non-refundable fares, but penalties have increased tremendously. Anecdote: a friend of mine booked a weekend trip in 2009, the return flight was Sunday 12:30 am. When I pointed out to her that was essentially Saturday night, she got on the phone to change her ticket to the last flight out that same Sunday. $40 change fee. Today that would almost surely be $100+ on any US-based airline. All these extra fees aren't aimed at millennials specifically, but I sure don't see them resisting enough to have any of these companies reverse or reduce some of their fees in response to consumer complaints or dissatisfaction.
- bane 8y ago
  It's even worse than that. My brother-in-law, who doesn't speak much English, accidentally selected the wrong option at a check-in kiosk in Las Vegas and was upsold some kind of "premier" ticket option that let him board a flight first for the low low price of $42. After he realized he made a mistake he sought out the airline staff and they told him he had to go to some website which showed that he had checked in, but not the extra charge or option. Eventually he made his way to a service desk at the airport and they told him to call a number after he landed on the other side. The "customer service" representative then informed him that since he had already taken the flight, he couldn't get a refund. I helped him file a complaint with the airline explaining the English and the lack of help from airline staff and the confusing remediation directions he received. They responded very quickly informing him that he would not be refunded but to please fly again with them.
  - caminante 8y ago
    Did he accept and realize the advance boarding? My read is that he probably screwed up and could've asked more questions at the kiosk. In addition, you're a supportive BIL!
    - bane 8y ago
      He accepted, thought about it, then went directly to the airline staff for help. They basically told him to phone/web/email and ignored him. The kiosk was one of those touchscreen things so nobody to ask when he was making the mistake. It is ultimately his mistake, but at the same time, they're keeping >$40 he accidentally spent so he could board an aircraft 3 minutes early. It's kind of silly.
- gnopgnip 8y ago
  If it is for a ticket originating from the US you can cancel and get a refund as long as it is within 24 hours of booking the ticket, and the ticket is at least 7 days out
jzwinck 8y ago
Air Asia, like many discount airlines, charges different fees depending on payment method. Paying by bank transfer carries roughly half the fee of paying by credit card. So a lot of people can't do chargebacks (which is part of the reason bank transfers have lower fees in the first place, less risk for the airline).
panarky 8y ago
This actually works. I was flying AirAsia to Sulawesi last year, and 2 days before my flight the tsunami hit. Hotels destroyed, tourists evacuated from the island. Even though they're trying to get people off the island, AirAsia refused to refund or even rebook my flight because it was nonrefundable. Filed a chargeback, and got a response from AirAsia via the credit card issuer offering a refund if I would withdraw the chargeback. Never again.

mav3rick 8y ago

That sucks. No transactions ? I think companies like Kayak can get way with loose consistency guarantees and just push the onus on the user or have some money saved to reimburse you. You should file a dispute with your CC.

jayalpha 8y ago

This has happened with me and Sri Lanka airlines (tricky to book when they block VPNs, you are in China and they have a google captcha.). I ended up with two tickets, one via their website, one via Vayama. I complained and Sri Lanka airlines reimbursed me. Even got a free business class upgrade when I checked in :-)

healsjnr1 8y ago

I work on a hotel OTA and this and similar situations consume a disproportionate amount of our dev time, and I believe it should. So much travel software relies on third parties and problems with eventual consistency (read timeouts) mean that often either the customer is told their booking failed when it succeeded, or it fails after payment is taken. We try to ensure that our support tools make these situations, and the resolutions, as clear as possible to our customer agents. Ultimately, we are on the hook for this booking so it's in our interest to get it resolved for the customer so they are happy. Our stats show that this only happens to 0.5% of bookings, but if they aren't handled well, they take up a much larger amount of support time and then end up with an unhappy customer. Over the last few years I've come realise that this is a fundamental cost of building travel software. You can't gloss over these problems or push them back on the customer, otherwise you simply won't have any customers left.

otterley 8y ago
0.5% is 1 out of 200 bookings. That's a pretty high failure rate!