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So these Python programmers, do they have any domain expertise too? What value do you put on that? I am actually a similar age to the OP. I am 49, not far off

So these Python programmers, do they have any domain expertise too? What value do you put on that? I am actually a similar age to the OP. I am 49, not far off 54 in % terms. I have 19 years of Python experience. I recently started a new job, my 3rd time in consumer finance. Two months in, I already understand the business far better than the two year mark of those two previous roles. My direct productivity is at least 3x me ten years ago. My likely impact on the business is 10+ times more. Plus I still work harder than virtually anyone else I know, regardless of age. So what's the delta?

burtonator 8y ago
I was trying to keep it an apples to apples comparison. With 10+ more years the dev might have machine learning experience (or something else) which would qualify for more.
- Judgmentality 8y ago
  It doesn't take 5 years to teach yourself Machine Learning. While it is definitely a skill, it is not black magic. With a 5 year delta you could easily have ML experience, and a lot more as well to differentiate yourself.
  - gaius 8y ago
    It doesn't take 5 years to teach yourself Machine Learning. The low-hanging fruit in ML is absurdly low these days, the tools are very good and there is loads of sample code available. If you were already good with Python or R, and already had some nice clean data, you could be doing something useful with Keras in a day, no joke.
- stevesimmons 8y ago
  My point is, it is not an apples to apples comparison. Older workers are most valuable when they can leverage more from their broader and deeper experience of the business domain. For instance, you would probably say I am only half as productive as the data scientists I manage. I only get to spend an hour or two a week doing hands-on modelling, so I just don't have the same familiarity with the techniques and tools. But in terms of influencing output, I can have a five minute chat about the goals and context to their work and save them a week of fruitless effort. So in practical terms, my productivity is far higher. I could easily spend a bit of time to improve my modelling skills a bit. But the law of comparative advantage suggests our junior engineers should build their skills while I coach, mentor and set strategic direction. In fact, to give another very practical example, this weekend my company Oakam is hosting the European Pandas core developers (https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/ https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/) in London. My own personal contribution to Pandas this weekend will be minor. But I am far more effective by being able to provide the venue and fund travel grants so 30 core developers can collaborate together.
FranzFerdiNaN 8y ago
If you still work “harder” than everyone around you, you’re probably not as good as you think you are.
- stevesimmons 8y ago
  I work hard because I enjoy my job enormously, and because I can work 14+ hours a day on mathematical/analytical/programming work, day after day, without feeling the slightest bit tired. I have always worked like that since I was a kid. > you’re probably not as good as you think you are Here is one reference point for you... Check out the 1992 winners of the ACM Programming Competition here. I'm second from the right in the photo. https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/history-early-years https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/history-early-years

burtonator 8y ago

I was trying to keep it an apples to apples comparison. With 10+ more years the dev might have machine learning experience (or something else) which would qualify for more.

Judgmentality 8y ago
It doesn't take 5 years to teach yourself Machine Learning. While it is definitely a skill, it is not black magic. With a 5 year delta you could easily have ML experience, and a lot more as well to differentiate yourself.
- gaius 8y ago
  It doesn't take 5 years to teach yourself Machine Learning. The low-hanging fruit in ML is absurdly low these days, the tools are very good and there is loads of sample code available. If you were already good with Python or R, and already had some nice clean data, you could be doing something useful with Keras in a day, no joke.
stevesimmons 8y ago
My point is, it is not an apples to apples comparison. Older workers are most valuable when they can leverage more from their broader and deeper experience of the business domain. For instance, you would probably say I am only half as productive as the data scientists I manage. I only get to spend an hour or two a week doing hands-on modelling, so I just don't have the same familiarity with the techniques and tools. But in terms of influencing output, I can have a five minute chat about the goals and context to their work and save them a week of fruitless effort. So in practical terms, my productivity is far higher. I could easily spend a bit of time to improve my modelling skills a bit. But the law of comparative advantage suggests our junior engineers should build their skills while I coach, mentor and set strategic direction. In fact, to give another very practical example, this weekend my company Oakam is hosting the European Pandas core developers (https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/ https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/) in London. My own personal contribution to Pandas this weekend will be minor. But I am far more effective by being able to provide the venue and fund travel grants so 30 core developers can collaborate together.

FranzFerdiNaN 8y ago

If you still work “harder” than everyone around you, you’re probably not as good as you think you are.

stevesimmons 8y ago
I work hard because I enjoy my job enormously, and because I can work 14+ hours a day on mathematical/analytical/programming work, day after day, without feeling the slightest bit tired. I have always worked like that since I was a kid. > you’re probably not as good as you think you are Here is one reference point for you... Check out the 1992 winners of the ACM Programming Competition here. I'm second from the right in the photo. https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/history-early-years https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/history-early-years