3 ms·

It's part of a respectable body of science researching the effects of heat shock protein release on autoimmune driven conditions. Both hyper and hypothermia cau

It's part of a respectable body of science researching the effects of heat shock protein release on autoimmune driven conditions. Both hyper and hypothermia cause the release of heat shock proteins, which trigger the immune system to dial down inflammation. This is co-option of the body's natural process for recovery after serious illness, where heat shock proteins are released in response to natural fever, triggering tnf-regulator cells and other processes. The twist is that we are starting to appreciate and investigate the use of heat shock protein release induction directly on mood disorders. A sizeable portion of depressed people, specifically the anhedonic subtype, respond to treatments that target the immune system, or it's effects on the brain. These people tend not to respond to most classes of antidepressants, aka treatment resistant depression, or cognitive therapies, since (on the whole) you can't think your way out of an autoimmune disease.

arkades 8y ago
There are a number of physiologically plausible mechanisms underlying various plausible therapies that turn out not to have clinical effects. That is why we test them empirically. And this study was not structured to plausibly prove clinical efficacy, regardless of how plausible you feel the underlying physiological mechanism is.
- WalterSear 8y ago
  Let me restate myself, then: this study is building on ones that have already presented plausibly proven clinical efficacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DtJGJWjDys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DtJGJWjDys https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27190490 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27190490 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027858460700070X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027858460... https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/cold-stress.pdf https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/cold-stress.pdf
  - arkades 8y ago
    So, I haven't seen this before. So I thought I'd take a look: Sources 1 and 4 are both from the "FoundMyFitness" folks. One is a YT video, and the other is a layman's article that, from what I see, is an argument including things like "here are various physiological routes that may play a role. Therefore, it works." A lot of pointing at mice models. Almost no reference to human studies at all. I went through it looking for what they referred to as evidence in humans, and found citations like Shevchuk 2008 ("Practical testing by a statistically insignificant number of people, who did not have sufficient symptoms to be diagnosed with depression, showed that the cold hydrotherapy can relieve depressive symptoms rather effectively"), and Gordh 1998 (an assessment of administration of 10 patients receiving epidural clonidine for pain relief, not cryotherapy), and Pertovaara 2003 (an assessment of rats getting fadolmidine, an alpha-2 agonist like clonidine). Your link #2, Tricas-Moreno 2016, is a case study of a single young athlete with ankylosing spondylitis receiving multimodal physical therapy - "with orthopedic joint mobilization, dry needling, exercise, and whole-body hyperthermia." Not that a single case report actually means anything, but for what it's worth, he received the opposite of cryotherapy. And source 3, Pae 2007, was a descriptive study showing that certain genetic variants for inflammatory mediators were associated with better or worse responses to antidepressants ("In conclusion, genetic variants within the genes coding for HSP-70 family proteins may affect the action of antidepressants and thus their therapeutic efficacy,") and that these markers went up or down in response to antidepressants, not that the presence of inflammation itself was causal. Nor was there any empirical assessment at all of cryotherapy as a treatment modality. So, to summarize: Source 1 and 4 seem to be some layman's stuff that, at best, points at some studies that suggest a possible mechanism, at the 10,000-foot level of "inflammation happens, it might be involved with depression, if you do things that might mediate some types of inflammation, you might mediate depression." Source 2 is a physical therapy case study of a guy that got the opposite therapy. Source 3 elaborates slightly on "inflammation may play a role in depression." None of this at all shows any clinical efficacy, whatever. None of these are clinical studies of cryotherapy in depression.
    - WalterSear 8y ago
      Sorry, that was the wrong ankylosing spndylitis reference. The last link, like the first, I passed on because it is full of references to primary articles. In any case, you don't seem to have the background in rheumatic diseases to evaluate any of this, and I don't have the time to pass on the knowledge I've garnered, as a sufferer, and also a life sciences engineer working on autoimmune and genetic engineering problems. Consequently this has already devolved into a Joe Rogan-style internet argument. If this stuff is important to you,keep watching the news, there's a lot of good research that's going to reach outside academia in the next couple of years, regarding hyper/hypothermia, heat shock proteins, and autoimmune and mood disorders.

arkades 8y ago

There are a number of physiologically plausible mechanisms underlying various plausible therapies that turn out not to have clinical effects. That is why we test them empirically. And this study was not structured to plausibly prove clinical efficacy, regardless of how plausible you feel the underlying physiological mechanism is.

WalterSear 8y ago
Let me restate myself, then: this study is building on ones that have already presented plausibly proven clinical efficacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DtJGJWjDys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DtJGJWjDys https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27190490 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27190490 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027858460700070X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027858460... https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/cold-stress.pdf https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/cold-stress.pdf
- arkades 8y ago
  So, I haven't seen this before. So I thought I'd take a look: Sources 1 and 4 are both from the "FoundMyFitness" folks. One is a YT video, and the other is a layman's article that, from what I see, is an argument including things like "here are various physiological routes that may play a role. Therefore, it works." A lot of pointing at mice models. Almost no reference to human studies at all. I went through it looking for what they referred to as evidence in humans, and found citations like Shevchuk 2008 ("Practical testing by a statistically insignificant number of people, who did not have sufficient symptoms to be diagnosed with depression, showed that the cold hydrotherapy can relieve depressive symptoms rather effectively"), and Gordh 1998 (an assessment of administration of 10 patients receiving epidural clonidine for pain relief, not cryotherapy), and Pertovaara 2003 (an assessment of rats getting fadolmidine, an alpha-2 agonist like clonidine). Your link #2, Tricas-Moreno 2016, is a case study of a single young athlete with ankylosing spondylitis receiving multimodal physical therapy - "with orthopedic joint mobilization, dry needling, exercise, and whole-body hyperthermia." Not that a single case report actually means anything, but for what it's worth, he received the opposite of cryotherapy. And source 3, Pae 2007, was a descriptive study showing that certain genetic variants for inflammatory mediators were associated with better or worse responses to antidepressants ("In conclusion, genetic variants within the genes coding for HSP-70 family proteins may affect the action of antidepressants and thus their therapeutic efficacy,") and that these markers went up or down in response to antidepressants, not that the presence of inflammation itself was causal. Nor was there any empirical assessment at all of cryotherapy as a treatment modality. So, to summarize: Source 1 and 4 seem to be some layman's stuff that, at best, points at some studies that suggest a possible mechanism, at the 10,000-foot level of "inflammation happens, it might be involved with depression, if you do things that might mediate some types of inflammation, you might mediate depression." Source 2 is a physical therapy case study of a guy that got the opposite therapy. Source 3 elaborates slightly on "inflammation may play a role in depression." None of this at all shows any clinical efficacy, whatever. None of these are clinical studies of cryotherapy in depression.
  - WalterSear 8y ago
    Sorry, that was the wrong ankylosing spndylitis reference. The last link, like the first, I passed on because it is full of references to primary articles. In any case, you don't seem to have the background in rheumatic diseases to evaluate any of this, and I don't have the time to pass on the knowledge I've garnered, as a sufferer, and also a life sciences engineer working on autoimmune and genetic engineering problems. Consequently this has already devolved into a Joe Rogan-style internet argument. If this stuff is important to you,keep watching the news, there's a lot of good research that's going to reach outside academia in the next couple of years, regarding hyper/hypothermia, heat shock proteins, and autoimmune and mood disorders.