6 ms·

OS research is still active though. I see many interesting microkernels being developed left right and center. RedoxOS is trying to build a unix microkernel. Ni

OS research is still active though. I see many interesting microkernels being developed left right and center. RedoxOS is trying to build a unix microkernel. Nintendo built Horizon, a capabilities-based microkernel for the Nintendo Switch. Many of Plan9's features have been incorporated into Linux. We have seL4, a formally proven kernel that is still in active development (they are currently working hard on getting a formally proven SMP component). I don't think it's fair to say Kernel research is a thing of the past.

pcwalton 8y ago
Also Fuchsia at Google.
- josteink 8y ago
  Let’s be honest: the only reason Fuschia exists, is so Google can ship a Android-platform 100% free of GPL-code in the future. There’s nothing in it for anyone else.
  - q3k 8y ago
    I think Fuchsia exists mostly to keep talented OS research people busy and make them stay at the company.
    - max76 8y ago
      It would be an awful waste of talent if it's just busy work.
      - glangdale 8y ago
        The argument exists (I'm not saying it's true) that Google hoovers up the smartest people to stop them making another Google. People used to make the same argument about Microsoft.
        pjmlp 8y ago
        I don't remember the source, so I might be making this up, I kind of remember Bill Gates stating that they would rather hire someone and keep them busy as letting them work for the competition.
        glangdale 8y ago
        I have a similar vague memory. That being said, that also works as a pretty good post hoc justification for having some guys randomly doing research and not really delivering what you hoped they'd deliver ("Hey, at least they didn't go off and make another Microsoft!").
        vfclists 8y ago
        That is why today we have Java and its IDEs instead of Smalltalk and its evolvents like StrongTalk
  - vardump 8y ago
    Fuchsia is a pretty nice and clean design. I do see other use for it as well. Although I'm a little worried about driver performance, especially in cases when there's just ~100 microseconds time for the driver to react.
  - vinkelhake 8y ago
    How is Android limited by GPL?
    - hakfoo 8y ago
      It limits Google's abilities to force bundling of their revenue-generating and platform-psitioning components. Giving Android away to OEMs is in large part a vector to get the Play store, Chrome, Maps, and their monetizable services and data scarfing on the device. But some OEMs don't bundle everything. Think of the de-Googled Android variant ran by the Kindle Fire series, or the Chinese phones that include local stores and service providers that work there instead. Google can try to bludgeon them into playing ball with the trademark and various over-the-top agreements, but they can't stop them from saying "We'll take AOSP and make our own version and call it FireOS." With full licensing control up and down the stack, they can close that door much tighter.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      GPL forces a certain level of contributions back to their authors, Apache and MIT (which Android uses) none at all. Also, similarly to Apple, GCC just got removed from Android. Only the kernel is left.
- q3k 8y ago
  You're right, Fuchsia might be the closest modern day equivalent of Bell Labs and their OS research.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    MS Research also does quite a few cool things, some of them landed up on Windows USB stack, WSL, SQL Server deployment on Linux, .NET Native, async/await, driver validation with Z3, for example.
    - lemoncucumber 8y ago
      The Midori project out of Microsoft seemed pretty interesting, despite not ever turning into a shipping OS.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        At least it influenced async/await, TPL, .NET Native, Span<>, local refs, ref structs, blittable structs, and few other C# 7.x and 8.0 features. Reading between the lines of some Joe Duffy posts, I think Midori was a victim of rise to power from WinDev after that whole Longhorn/Vista history, only to end with UWP slowly getting back all the .NET features that they decided to throw away on the initial version of WinRT. Apparently post .NET Core 3.0 there will be some changes happening to .NET Native. It was briefly mentioned at Connect 2018, but they didn't wanted to precise what exactly.

pcwalton 8y ago

Also Fuchsia at Google.

josteink 8y ago
Let’s be honest: the only reason Fuschia exists, is so Google can ship a Android-platform 100% free of GPL-code in the future. There’s nothing in it for anyone else.
- q3k 8y ago
  I think Fuchsia exists mostly to keep talented OS research people busy and make them stay at the company.
  - max76 8y ago
    It would be an awful waste of talent if it's just busy work.
    - glangdale 8y ago
      The argument exists (I'm not saying it's true) that Google hoovers up the smartest people to stop them making another Google. People used to make the same argument about Microsoft.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        I don't remember the source, so I might be making this up, I kind of remember Bill Gates stating that they would rather hire someone and keep them busy as letting them work for the competition.
        glangdale 8y ago
        I have a similar vague memory. That being said, that also works as a pretty good post hoc justification for having some guys randomly doing research and not really delivering what you hoped they'd deliver ("Hey, at least they didn't go off and make another Microsoft!").
      - vfclists 8y ago
        That is why today we have Java and its IDEs instead of Smalltalk and its evolvents like StrongTalk
- vardump 8y ago
  Fuchsia is a pretty nice and clean design. I do see other use for it as well. Although I'm a little worried about driver performance, especially in cases when there's just ~100 microseconds time for the driver to react.
- vinkelhake 8y ago
  How is Android limited by GPL?
  - hakfoo 8y ago
    It limits Google's abilities to force bundling of their revenue-generating and platform-psitioning components. Giving Android away to OEMs is in large part a vector to get the Play store, Chrome, Maps, and their monetizable services and data scarfing on the device. But some OEMs don't bundle everything. Think of the de-Googled Android variant ran by the Kindle Fire series, or the Chinese phones that include local stores and service providers that work there instead. Google can try to bludgeon them into playing ball with the trademark and various over-the-top agreements, but they can't stop them from saying "We'll take AOSP and make our own version and call it FireOS." With full licensing control up and down the stack, they can close that door much tighter.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    GPL forces a certain level of contributions back to their authors, Apache and MIT (which Android uses) none at all. Also, similarly to Apple, GCC just got removed from Android. Only the kernel is left.
q3k 8y ago
You're right, Fuchsia might be the closest modern day equivalent of Bell Labs and their OS research.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  MS Research also does quite a few cool things, some of them landed up on Windows USB stack, WSL, SQL Server deployment on Linux, .NET Native, async/await, driver validation with Z3, for example.
  - lemoncucumber 8y ago
    The Midori project out of Microsoft seemed pretty interesting, despite not ever turning into a shipping OS.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      At least it influenced async/await, TPL, .NET Native, Span<>, local refs, ref structs, blittable structs, and few other C# 7.x and 8.0 features. Reading between the lines of some Joe Duffy posts, I think Midori was a victim of rise to power from WinDev after that whole Longhorn/Vista history, only to end with UWP slowly getting back all the .NET features that they decided to throw away on the initial version of WinRT. Apparently post .NET Core 3.0 there will be some changes happening to .NET Native. It was briefly mentioned at Connect 2018, but they didn't wanted to precise what exactly.