4 ms·

> Consensual sex work is mentioned, my perception is I would be more interested in data than one person's subjecting perception. > I hear of no stories where

by Lazare 8y ago

> Consensual sex work is mentioned, my perception is I would be more interested in data than one person's subjecting perception. > I hear of no stories where people have found happy and fulfilled lives as prostitutes One of the major points of the article is that the voices of sex workers have been driven off the internet. You can't justify censorship by saying that none of the now-censored voices are complaining. > The "women speaking truth" can only every have authentic voices if they are speaking from positions of power and security; I do not believe that this is the case for prostitutes anywhere. That is either completely false, OR by your logic nobody can ever speak about what it's like to work a retail job. Some jobs suck; sometimes the people working them don't have a lot of power and security. So either your arguing that we shouldn't listen to anyone who isn't a millionaire, or you're not aware of the voices that exist. > The illegality of prostitution is not because people are prudes, it is because prostitutes are routinely destroyed by their work. Funny how that seems to only happen in places prostitution is illegal.

zozbot123 8y ago
The problem with legalizing prostitution is that it opens up a sanctioned venue which human traffickers can use to slip under the radar. You can have the best regulation in the world and you'll still fail to have only the entirely above-board, willing sex work that the sex workers themselves would like. It's the same reason why e.g. we ban all new elephant ivory, period-- even ivory that supposedly does not come from poachers killing an endangered, wild elephant. Because if you try to allow "good, fair-trade ivory", the poachers will try their best to get their stuff in there. And when it comes to the balance between costs and benefits, it doesn't take many bad apples to spoil the whole barrel.
- Lazare 8y ago
  Good theory. That totally could be an issue. Maybe sex work is like ivory, and not like, I dunno, all the other jobs human beings do! Or maybe not. Luckily, we can check NZ, since they legalised sex work, and research has since been done to see what the answer was: http://www.gaatw.org/publications/SWorganising/NewZealand-web.pdf http://www.gaatw.org/publications/SWorganising/NewZealand-we... And actually, none of that is true! Actually it turns out that what really enables trafficking and the abuse of sex workers is situations where they can't go to the police, or where brothels have to hide their existence from the authorities entirely. Once you're legal and regulated, it's really easy for the immigration officials to show up and start checking paperwork. > you'll still fail to have only the entirely above-board, willing sex work that the sex workers themselves would like. Funny you should say that; again in the linked report it was noted that NZ does have an issue with that, but not from trafficked women, but rather from migrants. Due to anti-trafficking sentiment, the original law legalising prostitution banned people on temporary visas from working in the industry, which means people on temporary visas are the only sex workers in the country who can find themselves subjected to abusive work conditions while being unable to report it to the authorities. It makes sense, of course; everywhere you ban sex work you create a shadow that victimisation can take place in.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    NZ is one of the countries in the world with the highest level of broad-based economic development, and is literally in the middle of nowhere-- you couldn't find a less representative example. It's nice that they have managed to successfully regulate sex work, but this tells us practically nothing about how the same policy choice would work in a highly-diverse place like the average US state (and you might bring up Nevada here, which does have some limited form of legal prostitution - but guess what, that too is in the middle of nowhere, and basically not representative! Especially if you exclude Vegas and the other areas where prostitution is not legal) or European country, or anywhere else in the Western world for that matter.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Netherlands#Human_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Netherland... In some places, it's not merely a theory. Why the discrepancy? Maybe it's geographic as the other commenters suggests. The Netherlands is in the middle of somewhere while New Zealand is in the middle of nowhere. That sounds plausible to me. I think it might also be cultural. The Netherlands is known around the world for their sex industry, New Zealand is not. This makes the Netherlands a more rational destination for profit seeking predators.

by Lazare 8y ago

zozbot123 8y ago

The problem with legalizing prostitution is that it opens up a sanctioned venue which human traffickers can use to slip under the radar. You can have the best regulation in the world and you'll still fail to have only the entirely above-board, willing sex work that the sex workers themselves would like. It's the same reason why e.g. we ban all new elephant ivory, period-- even ivory that supposedly does not come from poachers killing an endangered, wild elephant. Because if you try to allow "good, fair-trade ivory", the poachers will try their best to get their stuff in there. And when it comes to the balance between costs and benefits, it doesn't take many bad apples to spoil the whole barrel.

Lazare 8y ago
Good theory. That totally could be an issue. Maybe sex work is like ivory, and not like, I dunno, all the other jobs human beings do! Or maybe not. Luckily, we can check NZ, since they legalised sex work, and research has since been done to see what the answer was: http://www.gaatw.org/publications/SWorganising/NewZealand-web.pdf http://www.gaatw.org/publications/SWorganising/NewZealand-we... And actually, none of that is true! Actually it turns out that what really enables trafficking and the abuse of sex workers is situations where they can't go to the police, or where brothels have to hide their existence from the authorities entirely. Once you're legal and regulated, it's really easy for the immigration officials to show up and start checking paperwork. > you'll still fail to have only the entirely above-board, willing sex work that the sex workers themselves would like. Funny you should say that; again in the linked report it was noted that NZ does have an issue with that, but not from trafficked women, but rather from migrants. Due to anti-trafficking sentiment, the original law legalising prostitution banned people on temporary visas from working in the industry, which means people on temporary visas are the only sex workers in the country who can find themselves subjected to abusive work conditions while being unable to report it to the authorities. It makes sense, of course; everywhere you ban sex work you create a shadow that victimisation can take place in.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  NZ is one of the countries in the world with the highest level of broad-based economic development, and is literally in the middle of nowhere-- you couldn't find a less representative example. It's nice that they have managed to successfully regulate sex work, but this tells us practically nothing about how the same policy choice would work in a highly-diverse place like the average US state (and you might bring up Nevada here, which does have some limited form of legal prostitution - but guess what, that too is in the middle of nowhere, and basically not representative! Especially if you exclude Vegas and the other areas where prostitution is not legal) or European country, or anywhere else in the Western world for that matter.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Netherlands#Human_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Netherland... In some places, it's not merely a theory. Why the discrepancy? Maybe it's geographic as the other commenters suggests. The Netherlands is in the middle of somewhere while New Zealand is in the middle of nowhere. That sounds plausible to me. I think it might also be cultural. The Netherlands is known around the world for their sex industry, New Zealand is not. This makes the Netherlands a more rational destination for profit seeking predators.