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I am sick of this non sense. It's because nobody knows what they want and those that should be the ones knowing it all also do not know what they know and what

I am sick of this non sense. It's because nobody knows what they want and those that should be the ones knowing it all also do not know what they know and what they need to learn. We built immensely complex systems that allow us to scale. The thing is we have increased the complexity so much that we no longer can justify hiring incompetent. Simplicity is beautiful and we will have a renaissance of simpler systems. Something along the lines of what Go brought to the game.

sascha_sl 8y ago
>Something along the lines of what Go brought to the game. Where the biggest adopter, Kubernetes, is ironically a way too complex system of automation routines that still regularly fail in production environments. And oh dear, if they fail, it's gonna be hard to figure out what exactly went wrong. We uncovered a bug in the job controller just yesterday that was probably not biting anyone else due to how a race condition usually plays out, but this kind of bug is way too common.
- theredbox 8y ago
  Yeah that's the irony of it. But Go is just a tool. People were building monstrosities with bash before and will be long after we build the mythical AI Cloud.
  - apta 8y ago
    > But Go is just a tool. Yes, but there are better tools suited for the job. Ironically, or perhaps not, Java or .NET would have faired better due to maturity of debugging and introspection tools.
- nova22033 8y ago
  >Where the biggest adopter, Kubernetes, is ironically a way too complex system of automation routines that still regularly fail in production environments. regularly fail? Do you have any data to back that up? No, a google search for one kubernetes failure doesn't count as proof of "regular failure"
  - sascha_sl 8y ago
    I'm in an SRE-like position for an otherwise unmanaged Kubernetes cluster. We have code merged in the repo as well as a few PRs still open. I should note that by regularly I mean edge cases and quirkiness, not that your run of the mill cluster mostly using deployments is going to randomly explode. But our teams still find ways to regularly break it in unexpected ways. So I guess you could call that anecdotal if you want.
josteink 8y ago
> Simplicity is beautiful and we will have a renaissance of simpler systems. Something along the lines of what Go brought to the game. Go is a (IMO too) simplistic language. It does in no way follow that it will be used to build simple systems.
- rs23296008n1 8y ago
  I don't think simplístic means what you think it does. Go isn't simplistic. It might be seen as simple but it isn't so simple that it loses utility. There's plenty of nuance and elegance in there to solve real problems. A simplistic version of go would have a bunch of wizards and a giant code generator that runs after you click Next enough times.
  - josteink 8y ago
    > A simplistic version of go would have a bunch of wizards and a giant code generator that runs after you click Next enough times. You mean like Go and how people compensate for lack of generics? Generating code? That kind of simplistic?
    - apta 8y ago
      > You mean like Go and how people compensate for lack of generics? Generating code? Not to mention how mocks for unit tests are generated. Golang is a step back from Java and .NET

sascha_sl 8y ago

>Something along the lines of what Go brought to the game. Where the biggest adopter, Kubernetes, is ironically a way too complex system of automation routines that still regularly fail in production environments. And oh dear, if they fail, it's gonna be hard to figure out what exactly went wrong. We uncovered a bug in the job controller just yesterday that was probably not biting anyone else due to how a race condition usually plays out, but this kind of bug is way too common.

theredbox 8y ago
Yeah that's the irony of it. But Go is just a tool. People were building monstrosities with bash before and will be long after we build the mythical AI Cloud.
- apta 8y ago
  > But Go is just a tool. Yes, but there are better tools suited for the job. Ironically, or perhaps not, Java or .NET would have faired better due to maturity of debugging and introspection tools.
nova22033 8y ago
>Where the biggest adopter, Kubernetes, is ironically a way too complex system of automation routines that still regularly fail in production environments. regularly fail? Do you have any data to back that up? No, a google search for one kubernetes failure doesn't count as proof of "regular failure"
- sascha_sl 8y ago
  I'm in an SRE-like position for an otherwise unmanaged Kubernetes cluster. We have code merged in the repo as well as a few PRs still open. I should note that by regularly I mean edge cases and quirkiness, not that your run of the mill cluster mostly using deployments is going to randomly explode. But our teams still find ways to regularly break it in unexpected ways. So I guess you could call that anecdotal if you want.

josteink 8y ago

> Simplicity is beautiful and we will have a renaissance of simpler systems. Something along the lines of what Go brought to the game. Go is a (IMO too) simplistic language. It does in no way follow that it will be used to build simple systems.

rs23296008n1 8y ago
I don't think simplístic means what you think it does. Go isn't simplistic. It might be seen as simple but it isn't so simple that it loses utility. There's plenty of nuance and elegance in there to solve real problems. A simplistic version of go would have a bunch of wizards and a giant code generator that runs after you click Next enough times.
- josteink 8y ago
  > A simplistic version of go would have a bunch of wizards and a giant code generator that runs after you click Next enough times. You mean like Go and how people compensate for lack of generics? Generating code? That kind of simplistic?
  - apta 8y ago
    > You mean like Go and how people compensate for lack of generics? Generating code? Not to mention how mocks for unit tests are generated. Golang is a step back from Java and .NET