4 ms·

It is lacking because right now there are better, cheaper alternatives, no matter what your use case is.

tastroder 8y ago
There's always cheaper/better but change has a price too. The points the author addresses are absolutely a thing but you get to know those after a few projects. I don't really see an upside of switching out the SBC every year (or whatever the actionable advice is meant to be here) since that's quite literally never a point I want to spend time thinking about and the Pi is good enough (tm) for my use cases. It's not like the common use case for these hobby boards is in critical infrastructure.
alex_hirner 8y ago
My use case is working with motion vectors from its GPU through picam [0]. Is there an alternative? [0] https://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/api_array.html#pimotionarray https://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/api_array.ht...
fock 8y ago
So, please elaborate and produce those alternatives. I know none which are documented in a way that you can get next to any ARM OS up there without too much hardship. Of course you can get an STM-based µC, but I guess this is something else than a full-blown Linux-machine@40USD.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Odroid is a better alternative these days.
  - entity345 8y ago
    "better" only has meaning if you elaborate for what. Especially since they seem quite a bit more expensive than a Raspberry PI.
  - kingosticks 8y ago
    Can you be more specific? I've had a quick look on their UK site but they seem a lot more expensive (since I'll need a psu). Except for the C2 but is that really stuck on "Ubuntu 16.04 and Android 5.1 Lollipop based on Kernel 3.14 Lts"??! Or just an outdated website? Oh and no WiFi/BLE anyway so that's out.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      Which UK website? They only have one official website: https://www.hardkernel.com https://www.hardkernel.com C2 stuck on 16.04? I have no idea where you found that. It runs 18.04 currently since last year: https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-c2/os_images/ubuntu/v3.0 https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-c2/os_images/ubuntu/v3.0 And the C2 is not the right one to buy right now. You should rather consider the XU4 https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/
      - kingosticks 8y ago
        https://www.odroid.co.uk/ https://www.odroid.co.uk/ is the first result from duckduckgo. That should answer your 2nd question too. I bought an odroid some years ago (C1 maybe?) and I found quite a lot of things didn't work. I ended up paying quite a lot after the customs people had their way so I'd always go with a local distributor now. I could have returned it if I'd done that too. That xu4 link states it runs 16.04 but maybe that's also out of date info. The cpu performance sounds good but I think we'll have to disregard the pi3 comparison they provide as per the throttling the OP describes. Usb and network performance improvements would certainly be worth it for a NAS system, but then you don't get any sata ports. Gpio wise you've got a non-standard 2mm pitch header and 1.8V. What a pain. For me, the lack audio output and WiFi is a bit annoying. A media centre with a only hdmi1.4 would be a problem for some (you'd also maybe have to go for the slower one without a fan). Also remembering we are comparing a £42 device (I've included the official pi PSU) with a £70 device (+ if we want wifi). So maybe it's better compared against an atom board for those who want to spend a bit more. But an atom gives you sata so if that price comparison is fair (edit: had a quick look, it's not fair), the xu4 isn't that great. Maybe it is the use as a desktop system where the xu4 shines. I'm not convinced it's an obvious choice.
  - TuringTest 8y ago
    Oh, yes? How good is it in community support, learnability and cheapness? You know, the original points of the Raspberry Pi.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      What do you mean by learnability? It's Linux anyway. What you learn for the Raspberry Pi can be reapplied to any other board out there. The only aspect where compatibility depends on the board is the GPIO part. Cheapness? Most ARM boards are in the range 50 to 60 USD and I don't know in what world that is not "cheap". Plus, at such prices you can get stuff you just can't buy with a Raspberry Pi anyway (specs wise), so it's not like they are a little more expensive for no reason. Community support, Odroid is good enough there, while I would not recommend things like the BananaPi. https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/
      - TuringTest 8y ago
        For absolute beginners, a common platform is essential to be able to follow instructions, in special if they don't have external support and must learn on their own; think kids in a rural town in a developing country. Trying to follow tutorials for the Raspberry Pi on a different platform will more often than not be a nightmare and demotivate anyone first approaching the device. There's a network effect at play, making the most popular platform also the most desirable for diving in. As for price, 60USD is almost double the price than a Raspberry Pi 3 (and 10 times a Pi Zero), so it would be double the effort for someone with limited economical resources in those countries.
  - rcarmo 8y ago
    I have an ODROID U2 and love it, but it was much more expensive than my Pis and is a pain in terms of OS support (I'm still running the original kernel since Hardkernel has pretty much dropped support for it, and have hacked my way up to Ubuntu 18.04 on top of it). The Pi's popularity helps a lot in terms of support.

There's always cheaper/better but change has a price too. The points the author addresses are absolutely a thing but you get to know those after a few projects. I don't really see an upside of switching out the SBC every year (or whatever the actionable advice is meant to be here) since that's quite literally never a point I want to spend time thinking about and the Pi is good enough (tm) for my use cases. It's not like the common use case for these hobby boards is in critical infrastructure.

alex_hirner 8y ago

My use case is working with motion vectors from its GPU through picam [0]. Is there an alternative? [0] https://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/api_array.html#pimotionarray https://picamera.readthedocs.io/en/release-1.13/api_array.ht...

fock 8y ago

So, please elaborate and produce those alternatives. I know none which are documented in a way that you can get next to any ARM OS up there without too much hardship. Of course you can get an STM-based µC, but I guess this is something else than a full-blown Linux-machine@40USD.

ekianjo 8y ago
Odroid is a better alternative these days.
- entity345 8y ago
  "better" only has meaning if you elaborate for what. Especially since they seem quite a bit more expensive than a Raspberry PI.
- kingosticks 8y ago
  Can you be more specific? I've had a quick look on their UK site but they seem a lot more expensive (since I'll need a psu). Except for the C2 but is that really stuck on "Ubuntu 16.04 and Android 5.1 Lollipop based on Kernel 3.14 Lts"??! Or just an outdated website? Oh and no WiFi/BLE anyway so that's out.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Which UK website? They only have one official website: https://www.hardkernel.com https://www.hardkernel.com C2 stuck on 16.04? I have no idea where you found that. It runs 18.04 currently since last year: https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-c2/os_images/ubuntu/v3.0 https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-c2/os_images/ubuntu/v3.0 And the C2 is not the right one to buy right now. You should rather consider the XU4 https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/
    - kingosticks 8y ago
      https://www.odroid.co.uk/ https://www.odroid.co.uk/ is the first result from duckduckgo. That should answer your 2nd question too. I bought an odroid some years ago (C1 maybe?) and I found quite a lot of things didn't work. I ended up paying quite a lot after the customs people had their way so I'd always go with a local distributor now. I could have returned it if I'd done that too. That xu4 link states it runs 16.04 but maybe that's also out of date info. The cpu performance sounds good but I think we'll have to disregard the pi3 comparison they provide as per the throttling the OP describes. Usb and network performance improvements would certainly be worth it for a NAS system, but then you don't get any sata ports. Gpio wise you've got a non-standard 2mm pitch header and 1.8V. What a pain. For me, the lack audio output and WiFi is a bit annoying. A media centre with a only hdmi1.4 would be a problem for some (you'd also maybe have to go for the slower one without a fan). Also remembering we are comparing a £42 device (I've included the official pi PSU) with a £70 device (+ if we want wifi). So maybe it's better compared against an atom board for those who want to spend a bit more. But an atom gives you sata so if that price comparison is fair (edit: had a quick look, it's not fair), the xu4 isn't that great. Maybe it is the use as a desktop system where the xu4 shines. I'm not convinced it's an obvious choice.
- TuringTest 8y ago
  Oh, yes? How good is it in community support, learnability and cheapness? You know, the original points of the Raspberry Pi.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    What do you mean by learnability? It's Linux anyway. What you learn for the Raspberry Pi can be reapplied to any other board out there. The only aspect where compatibility depends on the board is the GPIO part. Cheapness? Most ARM boards are in the range 50 to 60 USD and I don't know in what world that is not "cheap". Plus, at such prices you can get stuff you just can't buy with a Raspberry Pi anyway (specs wise), so it's not like they are a little more expensive for no reason. Community support, Odroid is good enough there, while I would not recommend things like the BananaPi. https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/ https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-xu4/
    - TuringTest 8y ago
      For absolute beginners, a common platform is essential to be able to follow instructions, in special if they don't have external support and must learn on their own; think kids in a rural town in a developing country. Trying to follow tutorials for the Raspberry Pi on a different platform will more often than not be a nightmare and demotivate anyone first approaching the device. There's a network effect at play, making the most popular platform also the most desirable for diving in. As for price, 60USD is almost double the price than a Raspberry Pi 3 (and 10 times a Pi Zero), so it would be double the effort for someone with limited economical resources in those countries.
- rcarmo 8y ago
  I have an ODROID U2 and love it, but it was much more expensive than my Pis and is a pain in terms of OS support (I'm still running the original kernel since Hardkernel has pretty much dropped support for it, and have hacked my way up to Ubuntu 18.04 on top of it). The Pi's popularity helps a lot in terms of support.