4 ms·

> my perception is that the vast majority of sex workers are not doing it because of free choice, but rather because of exploitation and pressure. Your percept

> my perception is that the vast majority of sex workers are not doing it because of free choice, but rather because of exploitation and pressure. Your perception would be wrong. The vast majority of sex workers are doing it for the money, same as any job. > The illegality of prostitution Prostitution is not illegal in many parts of the world, and even decriminalised is some parts. > I hear of no stories where people have found happy and fulfilled lives as prostitutes. That's because you aren't listening. There's plenty of sex workers who blog or who are on twitter that you can ask. Just follow some and see. > prostitutes are routinely destroyed by their work. The biggest risk to sex workers in parts of the world where it is illegal is rape and murder by law enforcement.

carlob 8y ago
> Prostitution is not illegal in many parts of the world, and even decriminalised is some parts. Nitpick: decriminalization means that something is still illegal, but it's not a crime.
- diegoperini 8y ago
  What's the difference?
  - Lazare 8y ago
    Decriminalisation means relaxing the penalties so you get a civil fine, not a criminal charge. Jaywalking may get you a ticket, but it doesn't make you a criminal. Many people advocate for the decriminalisation of many drugs, including hard drugs; the idea is that even if we don't think heroine use is okay, locking someone up for using heroine isn't solving the problem. Legalisation means making it actually legal, as many US states have now made marijuana, or as NZ has made sex work. It can still be regulated or taxed, but in general its fine.
  - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
    Crimes go through a criminal justice track, and outcomes may include jail time. Illegal actions go through a civil justice track, and typically result in fines and/or some sort of civil restitution for victims. If you ignore building codes you're acting illegally. If you ignore building codes and people die you're a criminal. Which is fine as far as it goes. But criminality is often defined politically, not empirically in terms of outcomes. Sex work is complicated precisely because it's on the edge of consensus morality. It has so much moral and political baggage, and for those who care it's so difficult to manage in ways that minimise harm for all involved, that it's almost the definition of a political football. It doesn't help that authoritarians are invariably utterly hypocritical about it. Sex workers know that business is going to boom whenever a convention of self-styled moral hawks hits town. So there's always political pressure to keep that hypocrisy hidden, which makes the criminal/civil line even more of a hot-button issue than it would be anyway.
- perilunar 8y ago
  No. In terms of sex work, decriminalisation means it is not a criminal offence, i.e. not a crime. Legalisation mean also not a crime, but subject to restrictions and regulations. In NSW (Aus) and New Zealand (both decriminalised), there are no laws restricting sex work. Local councils may have zoning laws restricting where brothels may operate, but sex work itself is fully legal.
TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
What proportion of people do their day jobs because of exploitation and pressure? There's possibly a lower proportion on HN than elsewhere, but suggesting that most of the population works voluntarily, and not to avoid starvation and homelessness, is going to be a bit of a stretch. Sex work just makes the dynamic more obvious. There will be some who do it because it's a talent and a calling, but the majority do it because they need to put food on the table. And some of those will be posting how awesome it is on TW etc because it's free advertising.
- naasking 8y ago
  > Sex work just makes the dynamic more obvious. I don't see how it's any more obvious. Our culture is replete with examples of people complaining about their jobs, their bosses, their stress, TGIF, hump Wednesday, hate Mondays, etc. There are far more of these than examples of exploitation in prostitution. If all work is exploitation and pressure, then sex work is still just like any other job.
eli_gottlieb 8y ago
>Your perception would be wrong. The vast majority of sex workers are doing it for the money, same as any job. So, precisely exploitation and pressure, same as any other job.

carlob 8y ago

> Prostitution is not illegal in many parts of the world, and even decriminalised is some parts. Nitpick: decriminalization means that something is still illegal, but it's not a crime.

diegoperini 8y ago
What's the difference?
- Lazare 8y ago
  Decriminalisation means relaxing the penalties so you get a civil fine, not a criminal charge. Jaywalking may get you a ticket, but it doesn't make you a criminal. Many people advocate for the decriminalisation of many drugs, including hard drugs; the idea is that even if we don't think heroine use is okay, locking someone up for using heroine isn't solving the problem. Legalisation means making it actually legal, as many US states have now made marijuana, or as NZ has made sex work. It can still be regulated or taxed, but in general its fine.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  Crimes go through a criminal justice track, and outcomes may include jail time. Illegal actions go through a civil justice track, and typically result in fines and/or some sort of civil restitution for victims. If you ignore building codes you're acting illegally. If you ignore building codes and people die you're a criminal. Which is fine as far as it goes. But criminality is often defined politically, not empirically in terms of outcomes. Sex work is complicated precisely because it's on the edge of consensus morality. It has so much moral and political baggage, and for those who care it's so difficult to manage in ways that minimise harm for all involved, that it's almost the definition of a political football. It doesn't help that authoritarians are invariably utterly hypocritical about it. Sex workers know that business is going to boom whenever a convention of self-styled moral hawks hits town. So there's always political pressure to keep that hypocrisy hidden, which makes the criminal/civil line even more of a hot-button issue than it would be anyway.
perilunar 8y ago
No. In terms of sex work, decriminalisation means it is not a criminal offence, i.e. not a crime. Legalisation mean also not a crime, but subject to restrictions and regulations. In NSW (Aus) and New Zealand (both decriminalised), there are no laws restricting sex work. Local councils may have zoning laws restricting where brothels may operate, but sex work itself is fully legal.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago

What proportion of people do their day jobs because of exploitation and pressure? There's possibly a lower proportion on HN than elsewhere, but suggesting that most of the population works voluntarily, and not to avoid starvation and homelessness, is going to be a bit of a stretch. Sex work just makes the dynamic more obvious. There will be some who do it because it's a talent and a calling, but the majority do it because they need to put food on the table. And some of those will be posting how awesome it is on TW etc because it's free advertising.

naasking 8y ago
> Sex work just makes the dynamic more obvious. I don't see how it's any more obvious. Our culture is replete with examples of people complaining about their jobs, their bosses, their stress, TGIF, hump Wednesday, hate Mondays, etc. There are far more of these than examples of exploitation in prostitution. If all work is exploitation and pressure, then sex work is still just like any other job.

eli_gottlieb 8y ago

>Your perception would be wrong. The vast majority of sex workers are doing it for the money, same as any job. So, precisely exploitation and pressure, same as any other job.