4 ms·

What's the advantage of consenting? It seems purely disadvantageous for the passenger. It's not like you consent and they suddenly go away. I presume that if

by jMyles 8y ago

What's the advantage of consenting? It seems purely disadvantageous for the passenger. It's not like you consent and they suddenly go away. I presume that if you consent, they proceed to search all your stuff. Even if they don't steal or plant anything, it's a huge invasion of privacy and, if you have any delicate items, a risk that they'll be damaged.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
There is no advantage to consenting to a search or talking to police. Ever.
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  Pissing off someone with considerable discretionary power to make your life miserable has no disadvantages, ever?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    "Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Mandatory viewing IMHO.
    - est31 8y ago
      That's an awesome video. The guy talks a bit fast, but very great video that shows how much can go wrong. He especially makes the "I am innocent, why should I not talk to police" case be moot. Indeed, being innocent is the best defense there is against being convicted of a crime, but claiming to be innocent right at the beginning might not help your case.
  - jMyles 8y ago
    There may be cases where appeasing someone with discretionary power (real or perceived) leads to a better outcome, but consenting to an otherwise illegal search doesn't seem like it's possibly one of them to me. Am I missing something?
    - sjjshzvuiajhz 8y ago
      Well, if we’re talking about corrupt cops who will plant drugs, might they also lie about you consenting to the search? Maybe you’re better off doing whatever it takes to make them like you, so they are less likely make you the person they plant drugs on? I don’t know what the right answer is, it seems like a tough call. I’m skeptical of people who confidently say “consenting is never the right answer”.
      - jMyles 8y ago
        Well, you also need to record the conversation. I think that goes without saying.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    If they’re asking for consent to perform a search then they are already using their discretionary power in an attempt to make your life miserable. Giving your consent isn’t going to help.
- wahern 8y ago
  Refusing to speak to the police or otherwise being evasive is not the same as exercising your rights. Your behavior prior to requesting an attorney can be used against you--"he was acting suspicious by not giving me direct answers". But you can't request an attorney unless you've been detained, which they won't do. I don't think there's any substitute for (a) being polite ("Yes, sir. No, sir.") and (b) being aware of the context. Obviously you should never consent to a search or even give the impression that you're consenting. But literally not talking to the police is not really possible, so there's no avoiding keeping your wits about you so you can act in the most appropriate way possible. Pulling out your camera is a pretty ballsy move that could escalate things, but I wasn't there so can't judge. But if there were witnesses watching such as other passengers or, especially, a conductor, I wouldn't risk it. I'd just ask for the witnesses' contact information afterward. An irate cop could always snatch your phone away; it's much harder to intimidate a witness, and anyone inclined to do that probably wouldn't think twice about taking your phone or doing something worse later, anyhow. Ultimately you're pretty much helpless, so you have to optimize for the [more likely case] of the cops being mostly honest. They're unfortunately trained to intimidate (we've militarized our civilian police forces), so just because they're acting like assholes doesn't mean they're actually assholes.
  - ghthor 8y ago
    Thanks you for this empathic and balanced response. I'm quite tired of the narrative that the police are all assholes, as the ones that do act like assholes I've met has mostly been because they've been screwed by someone treating them like shit. Or as you've said, from the insanity that has been the training we've been giving them.

by jMyles 8y ago

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

There is no advantage to consenting to a search or talking to police. Ever.

jjoonathan 8y ago
Pissing off someone with considerable discretionary power to make your life miserable has no disadvantages, ever?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  "Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Mandatory viewing IMHO.
  - est31 8y ago
    That's an awesome video. The guy talks a bit fast, but very great video that shows how much can go wrong. He especially makes the "I am innocent, why should I not talk to police" case be moot. Indeed, being innocent is the best defense there is against being convicted of a crime, but claiming to be innocent right at the beginning might not help your case.
- jMyles 8y ago
  There may be cases where appeasing someone with discretionary power (real or perceived) leads to a better outcome, but consenting to an otherwise illegal search doesn't seem like it's possibly one of them to me. Am I missing something?
  - sjjshzvuiajhz 8y ago
    Well, if we’re talking about corrupt cops who will plant drugs, might they also lie about you consenting to the search? Maybe you’re better off doing whatever it takes to make them like you, so they are less likely make you the person they plant drugs on? I don’t know what the right answer is, it seems like a tough call. I’m skeptical of people who confidently say “consenting is never the right answer”.
    - jMyles 8y ago
      Well, you also need to record the conversation. I think that goes without saying.
- mikeash 8y ago
  If they’re asking for consent to perform a search then they are already using their discretionary power in an attempt to make your life miserable. Giving your consent isn’t going to help.
wahern 8y ago
Refusing to speak to the police or otherwise being evasive is not the same as exercising your rights. Your behavior prior to requesting an attorney can be used against you--"he was acting suspicious by not giving me direct answers". But you can't request an attorney unless you've been detained, which they won't do. I don't think there's any substitute for (a) being polite ("Yes, sir. No, sir.") and (b) being aware of the context. Obviously you should never consent to a search or even give the impression that you're consenting. But literally not talking to the police is not really possible, so there's no avoiding keeping your wits about you so you can act in the most appropriate way possible. Pulling out your camera is a pretty ballsy move that could escalate things, but I wasn't there so can't judge. But if there were witnesses watching such as other passengers or, especially, a conductor, I wouldn't risk it. I'd just ask for the witnesses' contact information afterward. An irate cop could always snatch your phone away; it's much harder to intimidate a witness, and anyone inclined to do that probably wouldn't think twice about taking your phone or doing something worse later, anyhow. Ultimately you're pretty much helpless, so you have to optimize for the [more likely case] of the cops being mostly honest. They're unfortunately trained to intimidate (we've militarized our civilian police forces), so just because they're acting like assholes doesn't mean they're actually assholes.
- ghthor 8y ago
  Thanks you for this empathic and balanced response. I'm quite tired of the narrative that the police are all assholes, as the ones that do act like assholes I've met has mostly been because they've been screwed by someone treating them like shit. Or as you've said, from the insanity that has been the training we've been giving them.