4 ms·

> the DEA conducts horrifying, intimidating, completely suspicion-less raids on Amtrak sleeper cars. It's still far less worse than airports, isn't it? I mean,

by est31 8y ago

> the DEA conducts horrifying, intimidating, completely suspicion-less raids on Amtrak sleeper cars. It's still far less worse than airports, isn't it? I mean, there is a risk that you are being searched but not everyone is. Compare that to airplanes where everyone is being searched and you and can't even take a bottle of water with you.

jMyles 8y ago
Most of the time, it's much better than the airport. 90% of the time, Amtrak is downright civilized. However, as I found out the hard way, actually having your compartment raided by the DEA is much worse than going through the TSA line. You're in your little (previously cozy) compartment with the door blocked by DEA agents. It's just you and your family. They're barking orders and demanding to search things. They're saying that you can be removed from the train if you don't comply. They're smacking your camera out of your hands and telling you to stop recording. They're telling you that if you don't submit to a complete search, they'll bring a dog who might bite your child. To be clear: they literally did all of those things in my case. What do you do? In my case, I held firm and told them that I wasn't going to answer any questions or consent to any searches, and after an absolutely terrifying 10 minutes, during which they repeatedly threatened violence against myself and my partner while our 3.5-year old wailed in terror, they finally went away. I suspect that if I had consented to a search, they'd have stolen cash from my wallet (as has been reported by several other passengers, as you can see from the links below) or worse, planted drugs in an effort to increase their numbers and justify seizing other items. Refusing to consent to a search is the obvious best thing to do in this scenario. But it's not easy, and definitely far worse than any TSA experience I've had, which includes being singled out for "enhanced" pat-down and questioning. I mean, it's the fucking DEA. Even the modicum of professionalism that you have with the TSA is gone. > can't even take a bottle of water with you. I typically bring an empty mason jar through security and then fill it at a water fountain.
- swiley 8y ago
  Wow I didn’t know about the drug planting. I just assumed consenting sucked but was the optimal thing to do.
  - jMyles 8y ago
    What's the advantage of consenting? It seems purely disadvantageous for the passenger. It's not like you consent and they suddenly go away. I presume that if you consent, they proceed to search all your stuff. Even if they don't steal or plant anything, it's a huge invasion of privacy and, if you have any delicate items, a risk that they'll be damaged.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      There is no advantage to consenting to a search or talking to police. Ever.
      - jjoonathan 8y ago
        Pissing off someone with considerable discretionary power to make your life miserable has no disadvantages, ever?
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        "Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Mandatory viewing IMHO.
        est31 8y ago
        That's an awesome video. The guy talks a bit fast, but very great video that shows how much can go wrong. He especially makes the "I am innocent, why should I not talk to police" case be moot. Indeed, being innocent is the best defense there is against being convicted of a crime, but claiming to be innocent right at the beginning might not help your case.
- est31 8y ago
  Wow, that sounds horrifying. Didn't know that you have been affected by this personally. Police officers shouldn't even get close to planting drugs or stealing money. They are there to enforce the law and not to break it. Hopefully body-cams will get some of them discharged/behind bars and the others to stop doing this.
  - Mirioron 8y ago
    Police officers can steal from you legally though. It's called civil asset forfeiture. Why wouldn't they if it's legal?
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  Does anyone know if the DEA actually has the right or authority to remove you from the train? Do they have the right to bring a dog into your compartment without a warrant? For that matter, do they have the right to enter your compartment without a warrant?
mikepurvis 8y ago
"Airplanes are worse" is not a great reason to be an apologist for papers-please style authoritarianism. In any case, airports generally concentrate the scary security stuff in one specific area. Once you're through that, you can pretty much expect not to be hassled. Especially, say, mid-journey when you're fast asleep.

by est31 8y ago

jMyles 8y ago

Most of the time, it's much better than the airport. 90% of the time, Amtrak is downright civilized. However, as I found out the hard way, actually having your compartment raided by the DEA is much worse than going through the TSA line. You're in your little (previously cozy) compartment with the door blocked by DEA agents. It's just you and your family. They're barking orders and demanding to search things. They're saying that you can be removed from the train if you don't comply. They're smacking your camera out of your hands and telling you to stop recording. They're telling you that if you don't submit to a complete search, they'll bring a dog who might bite your child. To be clear: they literally did all of those things in my case. What do you do? In my case, I held firm and told them that I wasn't going to answer any questions or consent to any searches, and after an absolutely terrifying 10 minutes, during which they repeatedly threatened violence against myself and my partner while our 3.5-year old wailed in terror, they finally went away. I suspect that if I had consented to a search, they'd have stolen cash from my wallet (as has been reported by several other passengers, as you can see from the links below) or worse, planted drugs in an effort to increase their numbers and justify seizing other items. Refusing to consent to a search is the obvious best thing to do in this scenario. But it's not easy, and definitely far worse than any TSA experience I've had, which includes being singled out for "enhanced" pat-down and questioning. I mean, it's the fucking DEA. Even the modicum of professionalism that you have with the TSA is gone. > can't even take a bottle of water with you. I typically bring an empty mason jar through security and then fill it at a water fountain.

swiley 8y ago
Wow I didn’t know about the drug planting. I just assumed consenting sucked but was the optimal thing to do.
- jMyles 8y ago
  What's the advantage of consenting? It seems purely disadvantageous for the passenger. It's not like you consent and they suddenly go away. I presume that if you consent, they proceed to search all your stuff. Even if they don't steal or plant anything, it's a huge invasion of privacy and, if you have any delicate items, a risk that they'll be damaged.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    There is no advantage to consenting to a search or talking to police. Ever.
    - jjoonathan 8y ago
      Pissing off someone with considerable discretionary power to make your life miserable has no disadvantages, ever?
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        "Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Mandatory viewing IMHO.
        est31 8y ago
        That's an awesome video. The guy talks a bit fast, but very great video that shows how much can go wrong. He especially makes the "I am innocent, why should I not talk to police" case be moot. Indeed, being innocent is the best defense there is against being convicted of a crime, but claiming to be innocent right at the beginning might not help your case.
est31 8y ago
Wow, that sounds horrifying. Didn't know that you have been affected by this personally. Police officers shouldn't even get close to planting drugs or stealing money. They are there to enforce the law and not to break it. Hopefully body-cams will get some of them discharged/behind bars and the others to stop doing this.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  Police officers can steal from you legally though. It's called civil asset forfeiture. Why wouldn't they if it's legal?
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
Does anyone know if the DEA actually has the right or authority to remove you from the train? Do they have the right to bring a dog into your compartment without a warrant? For that matter, do they have the right to enter your compartment without a warrant?

mikepurvis 8y ago

"Airplanes are worse" is not a great reason to be an apologist for papers-please style authoritarianism. In any case, airports generally concentrate the scary security stuff in one specific area. Once you're through that, you can pretty much expect not to be hassled. Especially, say, mid-journey when you're fast asleep.