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> they will come from a handful of companies who will face public pressure not to program them to allow grossly wasteful or antisocial behavior. One hopes. But

> they will come from a handful of companies who will face public pressure not to program them to allow grossly wasteful or antisocial behavior. One hopes. But one could also say: they will come from a handful of companies that will endeavor to make it seem that _the things that are most profitable for them and convenient for their customers_ are one and the same as the public interest. There are already narratives at hand that will make this easier: "40,000 lives a year!", etc. I've gone from being kind of excited about robot cars to realizing that we will have to be very vigilant.

emiliobumachar 8y ago
Being very vigilant is always good, but come on! "40,000 lives a year" is not something we were conditioned to believe is good because if fits someones agenda. It's unambiguously a very large public benefit by almost any moral standard.
- r_klancer 8y ago
  Not to put too fine a point on it, but that existence (or, it should be said, the possibility) of that very large public benefit is exactly the thing that could be used to shield those companies' business decisions from any constructive criticism or regulation. "Last year, Senator McClellan caused 40,000 people to die by voting against the Make AV Companies Invulnerable Act"
gamblor956 8y ago
There are already narratives at hand that will make this easier: "40,000 lives a year!", etc. That's not a concern, considering that the narrative right now is that self-driving cars are dangerous. Given the number of accidents and fatalities, the entire self-driving car industry would need to go an entire year without a single accident of any kind to even come close to claiming that they are as safe as a bad human driver.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  That may be the narrative, but I don't think that's the data.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    The data is that currently, self-driving cars are more dangerous than human-driven cars. The data is that there have already been 6 fatalities despite self-driving cars being owned/used primarily by drivers in the lowest-risk populations, in some of the best road conditions for driving. The data is that self-driving cars are far from ready to taking over the roads.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      I don't consider Tesla's autopilot to be "self-driving", but rather a limited driver aid. Uber's crash is the only fatality I'm aware of in a truly self-driving car.

emiliobumachar 8y ago

Being very vigilant is always good, but come on! "40,000 lives a year" is not something we were conditioned to believe is good because if fits someones agenda. It's unambiguously a very large public benefit by almost any moral standard.

r_klancer 8y ago
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that existence (or, it should be said, the possibility) of that very large public benefit is exactly the thing that could be used to shield those companies' business decisions from any constructive criticism or regulation. "Last year, Senator McClellan caused 40,000 people to die by voting against the Make AV Companies Invulnerable Act"

gamblor956 8y ago

There are already narratives at hand that will make this easier: "40,000 lives a year!", etc. That's not a concern, considering that the narrative right now is that self-driving cars are dangerous. Given the number of accidents and fatalities, the entire self-driving car industry would need to go an entire year without a single accident of any kind to even come close to claiming that they are as safe as a bad human driver.

sokoloff 8y ago
That may be the narrative, but I don't think that's the data.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  The data is that currently, self-driving cars are more dangerous than human-driven cars. The data is that there have already been 6 fatalities despite self-driving cars being owned/used primarily by drivers in the lowest-risk populations, in some of the best road conditions for driving. The data is that self-driving cars are far from ready to taking over the roads.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    I don't consider Tesla's autopilot to be "self-driving", but rather a limited driver aid. Uber's crash is the only fatality I'm aware of in a truly self-driving car.