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There was recently a segment on NPR with a researcher for future automation. I’ll try to dig up a link but he made the opposite point of you. He claimed self-dr

There was recently a segment on NPR with a researcher for future automation. I’ll try to dig up a link but he made the opposite point of you. He claimed self-driving cars will give us more traffic but it will be much more efficient thanks to software. The lanes would be able to get shrunk from 12ft to 6ft due to better control and by doing that, you’re now able to possibly double your available lanes on a single road for the increase in cars.

Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
No, let’s use the 6ft freed up for a protected bike lane.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  a sibling comment is imagining a future where automated cars will be so good (and pervasive) that we no longer design cars to survive catastrophic crashes and can build them in any size, down to a single seat. I am going to take it a step further and say that lanes will become obsolete at this point, and we just pack them together as close as allowed by width. in this vision for the future, is it still necessary to chisel out 6ft on every surface street for humans to ride self-propelled bicycles?
dmortin 8y ago
There can be single passenger cars too instead of the current 4-5 seaters, which will take up less space than current cars.
- walshemj 8y ago
  good luck passing the crash tests
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    The crash test standards are passed by humans. If we get to a point where self-driving has dramatically (>95%) reduced crashes, crashworthiness becomes less of a pressing issue and we may be well advised to reduce the standards. (I'm fairly bearish on the prospects/likelihood of self-driving cars in my lifetime, but that's orthogonal to the point above. If they exist, we might not need to build mini-tanks anymore.)
- conductr 8y ago
  This is an often overlooked point. Once near zero accidents are proven, all types of vehicle design options become feasible. Super narrow, super light, etc. It may even be feasible to change the roads. I fear we’re a long way away though.
eesmith 8y ago
It seems that slightly over 10 feet may be better for current cars, rather than the common 12 feet. https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/07/10-foot-traffic-lanes-are-saferand-still-move-plenty-of-cars/399761/ https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/07/10-foot-traffic-la... . See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet#Lane_diets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet#Lane_diets . It's tough to see how to get down to 6 foot wide lanes when there are so many vehicles on the road which are wider than 6 feet. A Ford F-150 (thirteenth generation), which is the best selling pickup in the US, has a width of 79.9 in = 6.6 feet. Or, consider a family with 2 parents and 3 kids, where all three need car seats, plus room for strollers, extra clothes, and so on. I looked at top DDG hits for "car for three kids" and all of them were over 6 feet in width. Then there are service vehicles, like garbage trucks, which are well wider than 6 feet. (https://www.reference.com/vehicles/size-typical-garbage-truck-16b18bf7358d3436 https://www.reference.com/vehicles/size-typical-garbage-truc... says a popular model is "approximately 102 inches" = 8.5 feet). Where do they drive without blocking two lanes of traffic. It would also be impossible to use by any RVs. https://campergrid.com/average-rv-length-width/ https://campergrid.com/average-rv-length-width/ says "Travel trailers or a camper trailer on an average are around 20 feet in length and 8 feet in width". Others are larger; "Class A RV width stands at an average of 9.5 feet". Or conversion vans for people in wheelchairs. These are all solvable, but there's a lot of existing - and expensive - systems in place which would need to be changed to make that vision come true. At the very least you need to wait until people who don't have narrow self-driving cars no longer have the political influence to keep others from kicking them off the road.

Doctor_Fegg 8y ago

No, let’s use the 6ft freed up for a protected bike lane.

leetcrew 8y ago
a sibling comment is imagining a future where automated cars will be so good (and pervasive) that we no longer design cars to survive catastrophic crashes and can build them in any size, down to a single seat. I am going to take it a step further and say that lanes will become obsolete at this point, and we just pack them together as close as allowed by width. in this vision for the future, is it still necessary to chisel out 6ft on every surface street for humans to ride self-propelled bicycles?

dmortin 8y ago

There can be single passenger cars too instead of the current 4-5 seaters, which will take up less space than current cars.

walshemj 8y ago
good luck passing the crash tests
- sokoloff 8y ago
  The crash test standards are passed by humans. If we get to a point where self-driving has dramatically (>95%) reduced crashes, crashworthiness becomes less of a pressing issue and we may be well advised to reduce the standards. (I'm fairly bearish on the prospects/likelihood of self-driving cars in my lifetime, but that's orthogonal to the point above. If they exist, we might not need to build mini-tanks anymore.)
conductr 8y ago
This is an often overlooked point. Once near zero accidents are proven, all types of vehicle design options become feasible. Super narrow, super light, etc. It may even be feasible to change the roads. I fear we’re a long way away though.

eesmith 8y ago

It seems that slightly over 10 feet may be better for current cars, rather than the common 12 feet. https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/07/10-foot-traffic-lanes-are-saferand-still-move-plenty-of-cars/399761/ https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/07/10-foot-traffic-la... . See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet#Lane_diets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet#Lane_diets . It's tough to see how to get down to 6 foot wide lanes when there are so many vehicles on the road which are wider than 6 feet. A Ford F-150 (thirteenth generation), which is the best selling pickup in the US, has a width of 79.9 in = 6.6 feet. Or, consider a family with 2 parents and 3 kids, where all three need car seats, plus room for strollers, extra clothes, and so on. I looked at top DDG hits for "car for three kids" and all of them were over 6 feet in width. Then there are service vehicles, like garbage trucks, which are well wider than 6 feet. (https://www.reference.com/vehicles/size-typical-garbage-truck-16b18bf7358d3436 https://www.reference.com/vehicles/size-typical-garbage-truc... says a popular model is "approximately 102 inches" = 8.5 feet). Where do they drive without blocking two lanes of traffic. It would also be impossible to use by any RVs. https://campergrid.com/average-rv-length-width/ https://campergrid.com/average-rv-length-width/ says "Travel trailers or a camper trailer on an average are around 20 feet in length and 8 feet in width". Others are larger; "Class A RV width stands at an average of 9.5 feet". Or conversion vans for people in wheelchairs. These are all solvable, but there's a lot of existing - and expensive - systems in place which would need to be changed to make that vision come true. At the very least you need to wait until people who don't have narrow self-driving cars no longer have the political influence to keep others from kicking them off the road.