4 ms·

> Silicon Valley has no intention of retraining itself in any manner. Historically, no industry, once became major, intended to retrain itself to be more posit

by ranit 8y ago

> Silicon Valley has no intention of retraining itself in any manner. Historically, no industry, once became major, intended to retrain itself to be more positive to the society. If any improvement happened, it was forced from outside.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
So who was forcing the many famous Victorian philanthropist industrialists to build their railway and model villages, with free schools, hospitals and more for workers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village
- lupire 8y ago
  I'm not seeing the philanthropy. They were trying to obtain effective workers without being destroyed by angry outside forces: > The Swing Riots of 1830 highlighted poor housing in the countryside, ill health and immorality and landowners had a responsibility to provide cottages with basic sanitation. The best landlords provided accommodation but many adopted a paternalistic attitude when they built model dwellings and imposed their own standards on the tenants charging low rents but paying low wages.[3] Also: Company Towns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town
- nathankunicki 8y ago
  That was definitely for their benefit of their workers rather than the greater society, and on the whole doesn't seem much different than the larger Silicon Valley companies of today. Take Facebook for example. They have a large utopian-esque campus for the benefits of their workers. In this campus they have bikes for getting around, free bars and restaurants (and an ice cream shop), an on campus doctor, bicycle repair shop, and in fact have somehow managed to convince CBP and USCIS to visit their campus to conduct Global Entry and Visa interviews instead of the workers having to travel to an office. Couple this with the free employee shuttle buses for employees to travel from their homes to the campus, and it seems very much like the "Model village" you described. EDIT: Here is a link to an article (with photo tour) of their Menlo Park campus: https://www.businessinsider.com/facebooks-disneyland-inspired-campus-2013-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebooks-disneyland-inspire...
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    > and in fact have somehow managed to convince CBP and USCIS to visit their campus to conduct Global Entry and Visa interviews instead of the workers having to travel to an office. Not to detract from your point, but this is a common service for employers above a certain size-- not some shady negotiation. My last few (not even close to FAANG) employers have all offered this perk.
    - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
      None of these things are shady. The parent was just using them as examples of companies trying to make their employees' lives better as a means of helping to retain them.
    - nathankunicki 8y ago
      I'm not trying to suggest it's shady, but it's clearly an employee perk that is not available to society at large. It's another effort by the company to make an "exclusive" community that benefits their employees and as a result helps retain talent for as long as possible. None of it is a philanthropic effort as originally suggested.
  - rargramble 8y ago
    And these exist mostly to keep workers on campus, so that they don't need to go home as much.
- tialaramex 8y ago
  Mostly God, e.g. Titus Salt is listed in that article "Salt's motives in building Saltaire remain obscure. They seem to have been a mixture of sound economics, Christian duty, and a desire to have effective control over his workforce. There were economic reasons for moving out of Bradford, and the village did provide him with an amenable, handpicked workforce. Yet Salt was deeply religious and sincerely believed that, by creating an environment where people could lead healthy, virtuous, godly lives, he was doing God's work." Now, God doesn't exist, so as an external motivation he's a bit of a problem, certainly it doesn't seem to make _more_ sense to cite a non-existent God as forcing Salt to build this village than it does to credit it to his basic humanity.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
    > Now, God doesn't exist Do you have a definitive source for that?
    - nathankunicki 8y ago
      The burden of proof is not on him. It is on you to prove that he does.
intopieces 8y ago
This is true, by virtue of the fact that industries cannot have intentions, only incentives. Incentives can re-align based on many forces: social, environmental, political, all of which underlie the desire for everyone to keep their jobs and/or keep their stock price high enough fill their retirement accounts. If the "tech industry" can be considered a single entity, it appears that the incentive re-alignment is happening from all these forces at once.
athenot 8y ago
That improvement forced from outside is called "Disruption". The disruptors will eventually be disrupted.
8bitsrule 8y ago
Without pointing a finger, but onsidering the (so-far) lost potential of this new medium - once so promising, now the dismay of so many ... it has become 'Sellout Valley'.

by ranit 8y ago

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

So who was forcing the many famous Victorian philanthropist industrialists to build their railway and model villages, with free schools, hospitals and more for workers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village

lupire 8y ago
I'm not seeing the philanthropy. They were trying to obtain effective workers without being destroyed by angry outside forces: > The Swing Riots of 1830 highlighted poor housing in the countryside, ill health and immorality and landowners had a responsibility to provide cottages with basic sanitation. The best landlords provided accommodation but many adopted a paternalistic attitude when they built model dwellings and imposed their own standards on the tenants charging low rents but paying low wages.[3] Also: Company Towns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town
nathankunicki 8y ago
That was definitely for their benefit of their workers rather than the greater society, and on the whole doesn't seem much different than the larger Silicon Valley companies of today. Take Facebook for example. They have a large utopian-esque campus for the benefits of their workers. In this campus they have bikes for getting around, free bars and restaurants (and an ice cream shop), an on campus doctor, bicycle repair shop, and in fact have somehow managed to convince CBP and USCIS to visit their campus to conduct Global Entry and Visa interviews instead of the workers having to travel to an office. Couple this with the free employee shuttle buses for employees to travel from their homes to the campus, and it seems very much like the "Model village" you described. EDIT: Here is a link to an article (with photo tour) of their Menlo Park campus: https://www.businessinsider.com/facebooks-disneyland-inspired-campus-2013-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebooks-disneyland-inspire...
- jstarfish 8y ago
  > and in fact have somehow managed to convince CBP and USCIS to visit their campus to conduct Global Entry and Visa interviews instead of the workers having to travel to an office. Not to detract from your point, but this is a common service for employers above a certain size-- not some shady negotiation. My last few (not even close to FAANG) employers have all offered this perk.
  - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
    None of these things are shady. The parent was just using them as examples of companies trying to make their employees' lives better as a means of helping to retain them.
  - nathankunicki 8y ago
    I'm not trying to suggest it's shady, but it's clearly an employee perk that is not available to society at large. It's another effort by the company to make an "exclusive" community that benefits their employees and as a result helps retain talent for as long as possible. None of it is a philanthropic effort as originally suggested.
- rargramble 8y ago
  And these exist mostly to keep workers on campus, so that they don't need to go home as much.
tialaramex 8y ago
Mostly God, e.g. Titus Salt is listed in that article "Salt's motives in building Saltaire remain obscure. They seem to have been a mixture of sound economics, Christian duty, and a desire to have effective control over his workforce. There were economic reasons for moving out of Bradford, and the village did provide him with an amenable, handpicked workforce. Yet Salt was deeply religious and sincerely believed that, by creating an environment where people could lead healthy, virtuous, godly lives, he was doing God's work." Now, God doesn't exist, so as an external motivation he's a bit of a problem, certainly it doesn't seem to make _more_ sense to cite a non-existent God as forcing Salt to build this village than it does to credit it to his basic humanity.
- HeWhoLurksLate 8y ago
  > Now, God doesn't exist Do you have a definitive source for that?
  - nathankunicki 8y ago
    The burden of proof is not on him. It is on you to prove that he does.

intopieces 8y ago

This is true, by virtue of the fact that industries cannot have intentions, only incentives. Incentives can re-align based on many forces: social, environmental, political, all of which underlie the desire for everyone to keep their jobs and/or keep their stock price high enough fill their retirement accounts. If the "tech industry" can be considered a single entity, it appears that the incentive re-alignment is happening from all these forces at once.

athenot 8y ago

That improvement forced from outside is called "Disruption". The disruptors will eventually be disrupted.

8bitsrule 8y ago

Without pointing a finger, but onsidering the (so-far) lost potential of this new medium - once so promising, now the dismay of so many ... it has become 'Sellout Valley'.