4 ms·

this is a extremely naive view of the situation obviously there's no problem if you are of the belief that the EU would act fairly in the situation where a new

this is a extremely naive view of the situation obviously there's no problem if you are of the belief that the EU would act fairly in the situation where a new workable friction-less trade technology/mechanism is created the ERG do not share this belief: their view is that if the withdrawal agreement is signed then the EU has no incentive to ever permit the UK to leave the temporary arrangement, as it would lose control over the UK economy and trade policy without gaining anything in return they believe it's all about incentives, and in this case: they're probably right

Tomte 8y ago
Well, if the UK side believes that the EU cannot be trusted, then there shouldn't be a deal at all. Because there are always small details cropping up later that need to be fixed "fairly". Unfortunately that fits very well within the "go whistle" stance, and that's why I don't really support any Brexit deal and think the UK should just crash out, consequences be damned.
- blibble 8y ago
  it's not "cannot be trusted", it's about creating an environment that incentivises both parties to work towards a mutually acceptable solution it's obviously counter-productive to your interests in a negotiation to put your competitor into a position that gives them complete power over you that you can never exit without their permission
barrkel 8y ago
If May had won a decent majority in the election, I think she would have gotten the backstop through, possibly even NI-only. The all-UK backstop is an EU concession to the UK. The UK fought and asked for it, and other parties - e.g. France - are not in favour of it. It is not a plot to control the UK. For example, it only binds the UK mainland to follow harmonized laws in effect at the beginning of the backstop, and not to track dynamic changes to the regulatory landscape. Lack of dynamic tracking means UK has a built-in and potentially growing advantage over the rest of the EU, should it ever remain in effect for long. In any case, it's strongly in the UK's interest to have more integration than the backstop - to actually track closer to EU regulation than the backstop enforces - because the EU will continue to be the UK's single most significant economic partner, and the closest regulatory superpower. The UK doesn't have enough weight to get global suppliers to make special products for its domestic market if the regulations are different.
addicted 8y ago
The EU has no incentive for a pissed off UK hanging on the basis of a temporary compromise. It’s only the ERG’s inflated sense of England’s greatness that makes it hard for them to comprehend that the EU actually has bigger goals than just attaching itself to the UK. This misunderstanding has led Brexiters to be consistently wrong in their analyses and predictions throughout this process. Right from easiest deal in history, to having your cake and eating it too, to wondering why doesn’t the Republic of Ireland just subjugate itself to the UK and give up their independence.
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
The ERG wants an excuse, they have already started indicating other problems if the backstop gets resolved. They can never be satisfied which was why May called the last election.

Tomte 8y ago

Well, if the UK side believes that the EU cannot be trusted, then there shouldn't be a deal at all. Because there are always small details cropping up later that need to be fixed "fairly". Unfortunately that fits very well within the "go whistle" stance, and that's why I don't really support any Brexit deal and think the UK should just crash out, consequences be damned.

blibble 8y ago
it's not "cannot be trusted", it's about creating an environment that incentivises both parties to work towards a mutually acceptable solution it's obviously counter-productive to your interests in a negotiation to put your competitor into a position that gives them complete power over you that you can never exit without their permission

barrkel 8y ago

If May had won a decent majority in the election, I think she would have gotten the backstop through, possibly even NI-only. The all-UK backstop is an EU concession to the UK. The UK fought and asked for it, and other parties - e.g. France - are not in favour of it. It is not a plot to control the UK. For example, it only binds the UK mainland to follow harmonized laws in effect at the beginning of the backstop, and not to track dynamic changes to the regulatory landscape. Lack of dynamic tracking means UK has a built-in and potentially growing advantage over the rest of the EU, should it ever remain in effect for long. In any case, it's strongly in the UK's interest to have more integration than the backstop - to actually track closer to EU regulation than the backstop enforces - because the EU will continue to be the UK's single most significant economic partner, and the closest regulatory superpower. The UK doesn't have enough weight to get global suppliers to make special products for its domestic market if the regulations are different.

addicted 8y ago

The EU has no incentive for a pissed off UK hanging on the basis of a temporary compromise. It’s only the ERG’s inflated sense of England’s greatness that makes it hard for them to comprehend that the EU actually has bigger goals than just attaching itself to the UK. This misunderstanding has led Brexiters to be consistently wrong in their analyses and predictions throughout this process. Right from easiest deal in history, to having your cake and eating it too, to wondering why doesn’t the Republic of Ireland just subjugate itself to the UK and give up their independence.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

The ERG wants an excuse, they have already started indicating other problems if the backstop gets resolved. They can never be satisfied which was why May called the last election.