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While lack of tariffs is nice, as a small-time seller, complying with all these VAT, taxing rules (Germany added new requirement in 2019 to obtain some kind of

While lack of tariffs is nice, as a small-time seller, complying with all these VAT, taxing rules (Germany added new requirement in 2019 to obtain some kind of new tax certificate which is not related to VAT certificate) makes it quite complicated from compliance point alone. But I guess it represents general attitude towards business in europe. Not sure how it is like in Japan. [edit] What I mean is that it is all fine if you can justify hiring a consulting service or actually establish an office there. But if you are too small for that - local rules makes it quite hard to sell in this market. So while free-trade indeed a positive, it is positive only for larger sellers.

babuskov 8y ago
> Germany added new requirement in 2019 to obtain some kind of new tax certificate Is it the tax residence one? We have had it in my country since 2017 and it has been a major PITA when working with smaller partners from US/Canada.
- hippich 8y ago
  I did not actually research it in depth, just posted what Amazon provided to all sellers. My plan is to quickly dispose of existing stock and quit these markets, as my sales do not justify trying to comply with local rules. To be fair, if USA states would start enforcing sales tax collection on foreign sellers - it would be the same story. But for now at the very least states go mostly after out of state sellers, not foreign ones. [EDIT] relevant discussion - https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/forums/t/anyone-registered-for-the-new-german-tax-certificate-now-in-jan-2019/183554?page=14 https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/forums/t/anyone-regi... Another one catching up - https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/forums/t/getting-ready-for-the-german-packaging-law-starts-1st-jan-2019/181112/20 https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/forums/t/getting-ready-fo...
fauigerzigerk 8y ago
That's true. But there is some progress on that as well. From Jan 2019, the so called VAT MOSS (mini one stop shop) is open to companies from outside the EU as well: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-changes-to-the-supply-of-digital-services-2019/vat-changes-to-the-supply-of-digital-services-2019 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-changes-to-th... I don't know how it works exactly, but it means that you can now supply digital goods and services to all EU countries after getting registered with the VAT MOSS instead of registering for VAT in every single EU country. Also, for very small suppliers there is now a €10,000 (p.a) threshold (total sales into the EU) below which you don't have to charge VAT at all.
- hippich 8y ago
  Just a perspective - €10k with a margin of 5% (is what I see after all the expenses for such a small volume) leaves you with €500 to comply with regulations. VAT compliance with the just UK costs us 700 GBP per year so far and few hours each quarter.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    Cost/bureaucracy of doing business is a common annoyance unfortunately, not exclusive to one or other country and those should be passed onto the consumer. These are rarely trivial on a small scale, small margin business.
    - hippich 8y ago
      That, as well as a way for companies to stiff competition - https://sermondo.com/the-new-german-packaging-law-amazon-fba/ https://sermondo.com/the-new-german-packaging-law-amazon-fba... : "Not participating in the system may be punished with a fine of up to € 200,000. It is conceivable that competitors will enforce the distribution ban by civil law."
- speleding 8y ago
  IIRC being below the 10.000 limit means you are allowed to charge the VAT from the EU country you are based, also for sales outside your country, I don't think it allows you to charge no VAT at all (that would probably be too easy to abuse)
  - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
    Yes, but for small businesses that often means no VAT at all. For instance, the VAT registration threshold here in the UK is £85,000. Yet, until last month, you would have had to register for VAT even if you sold just pennies worth of (digital) goods into other EU countries. I'm not quite sure how it affects US companies. There is no sales tax on exports from the US. So I think even if a US company would normally charge state level sales taxes on local sales, they would no longer have to charge VAT on any sales into the EU below 10,000. But I could easily be wrong on that. I'm not an accountant.
jakobegger 8y ago
That's where resellers come in. If you sell something like software, you can use a reseller like Fastspring, and they deal with taxes world wide. Since they sell the software, they owe VAT and GST and sales tax and whatnot -- you don't. They take a generous markup (6-9%), but for small sellers, it's a good deal.
- fauigerzigerk 8y ago
  Paddle is another option (https://paddle.com/ https://paddle.com/). They charge 5%.
malloryerik 8y ago
Encouraging small businesses to trade internationally should be a focus of trade deals.

babuskov 8y ago

> Germany added new requirement in 2019 to obtain some kind of new tax certificate Is it the tax residence one? We have had it in my country since 2017 and it has been a major PITA when working with smaller partners from US/Canada.

hippich 8y ago
I did not actually research it in depth, just posted what Amazon provided to all sellers. My plan is to quickly dispose of existing stock and quit these markets, as my sales do not justify trying to comply with local rules. To be fair, if USA states would start enforcing sales tax collection on foreign sellers - it would be the same story. But for now at the very least states go mostly after out of state sellers, not foreign ones. [EDIT] relevant discussion - https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/forums/t/anyone-registered-for-the-new-german-tax-certificate-now-in-jan-2019/183554?page=14 https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/forums/t/anyone-regi... Another one catching up - https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/forums/t/getting-ready-for-the-german-packaging-law-starts-1st-jan-2019/181112/20 https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/forums/t/getting-ready-fo...

fauigerzigerk 8y ago

That's true. But there is some progress on that as well. From Jan 2019, the so called VAT MOSS (mini one stop shop) is open to companies from outside the EU as well: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-changes-to-the-supply-of-digital-services-2019/vat-changes-to-the-supply-of-digital-services-2019 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-changes-to-th... I don't know how it works exactly, but it means that you can now supply digital goods and services to all EU countries after getting registered with the VAT MOSS instead of registering for VAT in every single EU country. Also, for very small suppliers there is now a €10,000 (p.a) threshold (total sales into the EU) below which you don't have to charge VAT at all.

hippich 8y ago
Just a perspective - €10k with a margin of 5% (is what I see after all the expenses for such a small volume) leaves you with €500 to comply with regulations. VAT compliance with the just UK costs us 700 GBP per year so far and few hours each quarter.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Cost/bureaucracy of doing business is a common annoyance unfortunately, not exclusive to one or other country and those should be passed onto the consumer. These are rarely trivial on a small scale, small margin business.
  - hippich 8y ago
    That, as well as a way for companies to stiff competition - https://sermondo.com/the-new-german-packaging-law-amazon-fba/ https://sermondo.com/the-new-german-packaging-law-amazon-fba... : "Not participating in the system may be punished with a fine of up to € 200,000. It is conceivable that competitors will enforce the distribution ban by civil law."
speleding 8y ago
IIRC being below the 10.000 limit means you are allowed to charge the VAT from the EU country you are based, also for sales outside your country, I don't think it allows you to charge no VAT at all (that would probably be too easy to abuse)
- fauigerzigerk 8y ago
  Yes, but for small businesses that often means no VAT at all. For instance, the VAT registration threshold here in the UK is £85,000. Yet, until last month, you would have had to register for VAT even if you sold just pennies worth of (digital) goods into other EU countries. I'm not quite sure how it affects US companies. There is no sales tax on exports from the US. So I think even if a US company would normally charge state level sales taxes on local sales, they would no longer have to charge VAT on any sales into the EU below 10,000. But I could easily be wrong on that. I'm not an accountant.

jakobegger 8y ago

That's where resellers come in. If you sell something like software, you can use a reseller like Fastspring, and they deal with taxes world wide. Since they sell the software, they owe VAT and GST and sales tax and whatnot -- you don't. They take a generous markup (6-9%), but for small sellers, it's a good deal.

fauigerzigerk 8y ago
Paddle is another option (https://paddle.com/ https://paddle.com/). They charge 5%.

malloryerik 8y ago

Encouraging small businesses to trade internationally should be a focus of trade deals.