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Japan has avoided the madness of tariffs and trade wars that has affected the west recently. Instead they have been quietly negotiating trade deals with everyon

Japan has avoided the madness of tariffs and trade wars that has affected the west recently. Instead they have been quietly negotiating trade deals with everyone and generally getting along. Good on them! Also it includes cheese, which will make westerners in Japan very happy.

titanix2 8y ago
> Also it includes cheese, which will make westerners in Japan very happy. Now that's effectively a big news worth sharing!
hkmurakami 8y ago
I still remember how horridly expensive cheese was in Japan. This is excellent news.
- siruncledrew 8y ago
  That's pretty interesting, is it expensive for all types of cheese from like kraft singles to french brie? Do you have any other stories of common EU/US items that are rare in Japan?
  - stevekemp 8y ago
    I might be being a bit of a snob, but in the context of a cheese-related discussion kraft singles don't really rate mention.
    - oh_sigh 8y ago
      Are you even allowed to call them cheese? I thought they had to be labeled as a processed milk product or something.
      - gruez 8y ago
        They’re called “process cheese product”
        telchar 8y ago
        Apparently that's the high end, the low end being "process American product slices". Not even allowed to use the word "cheese" in a name.
    - ctrl-j 8y ago
      Say what you will about Kraft singles, but they melt like nothing else. Kraft doesn't belong everywhere, but it has foodie applications. [0] [0] - https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american...
      - Foobar8568 8y ago
        Ever tried to grill raclette, vacherinn, gruyère, camembert, reblochon etc? For a couple of raw milk cheeses that are either dedicated to eat grilled/melt or "cold". Anything like Kraft singles is a joke
        drak0n1c 8y ago
        There's a reason why people say "the best thing since sliced bread". Sliced cheese has similar structural advantages. What is convenient becomes popular - for better or worse.
        kaybe 8y ago
        You can buy some of those cheeses sliced or grated in the supermarket here. It's not a structural problem.
        ctrl-j 8y ago
        Of the cheeses you've listed that I have tried, they all have a very strong flavor that would overwhelm a burger - sometimes a mild gooey flavor is exactly what is called for. Is there a cheese that you would consider to have a very mild chedderish flavor that has a more gooey sticky consistency like american cheese? What exactly about American cheese do you find so unpalatable? > Anything like Kraft singles is a joke Ridiculous dismissive statements like this aren't very helpful are they? If you want to be closed off, that's your prerogative. I'm certainly not going to be persuaded by such a comment devoid of substance, and I doubt you're going to change anyone else's mind with such a diminutive statement. It's just circlejerk snobbery - which is pretty much just bullshit.
      - 8y ago
  - jayalpha 8y ago
    Most western food is likely more expensive. I can speak only for China. - Cheese. Good Cheese is expensive. - Milk is expensive - Floss and mouth wash was uncommon and expensive until recently. - dentures cleaners were super expensive (I use them for a retainer) - Wine is expensive. Both, western and Chinese
- hinkley 8y ago
  One of the weird, nearly constant cultural boundaries is fermented foods. I suspect even without the tariffs cheese will still be expensive in Japan. It doesn't really 'go' with a lot of the cuisine. I mean, if you handed me donburi with cheese in it I'd probably say, "Okay, that's weird but it could work so let me try it," but I'm wracking my brain trying to think what other dishes you could fit in it. Certainly ethnic food from Europe and the Americas, but how else would you go about naturalizing cheese into the diet?
  - athenot 8y ago
    Cheese (at least in France) is not a topping but something consumed after the main course (and with bread). I could see a donbury followed by some mild cheeses. Perhaps stronger cheeses might even go with bonito flakes or other dried fish products. I'm sure some experimentation in pairing could yield some interesting results.
    - baby 8y ago
      Unless you're eating fondue, raclette, tartiflette, cheese with charcuterie, etc.
    - hinkley 8y ago
      So you're insisting that other cultures eat your fermented food as a standalone dish instead of as an ingredient, even after someone (me) pointed out how often that strategy fails? Oh boy.
    - ascar 8y ago
      That's probably only France, where cheese after meals is common. While it's frequently used as a topping in Italian cousine, it's nearly exclusively eaten on top of slices of (dark) bread as a standalone dish in German cousine (though Germans eat a lot of Italian food). The most American use of cheese (i.e. not Italian cousine related) is maybe the cheese flavored corn-snacks (e.g. cheetos).
      - hinkley 8y ago
x220 8y ago
>Also it includes cheese One of the best international treaties I've heard of
drak0n1c 8y ago
For those interested in why - Japan always had very high tariffs on cheese (40% on WTO, 37.5% on EU). In comparison, the US has a general tariff of 10% on cheese, with many exceptions making it 0%. http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2019_2/data/e_04.htm http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2019_2/data/e_04.htm https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=cheese https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=cheese Similarly high tariffs across the board on most imports has been the norm in Japan for decades, with many agricultural products also having quota limits. This led to potato shortages in 2017. Free trade is great when applied evenly. If it takes reciprocative pressure from the US to cause others think differently and change the status quo, so be it.
- zeroname 8y ago
  > Free trade is great when applied evenly. Free trade is great even when applied unevenly.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    Surprised this was being downvoted because it is true. If countries engage in protectionism unilaterally, they are predominantly harming their own consumers and undermining competition of their own businesses. As Friedman used to point out, if Japan wants to subsidize its steel at the cost of their own taxpayers, just take the cheap steel and be thankful for it.
    - Mirioron 8y ago
      VAT in the EU behaves in a similar manner as a tariff would. Yet we seem to be doing rather okay in that sense.
      - nroets 8y ago
        The VAT income of the state is the same regardless of where the product was manufactured. So it's not like a tariff at all.
      - ekianjo 8y ago
tareqak 8y ago
Canada has been doing the same [0]. A lot of effort does end up getting spent on managing relations with the U.S. which overshadows achievements elsewhere. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_Canad...
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  We started to. Then we got caught up in the spat with the US. And now China. I’d say we’re out. :(
pathseeker 8y ago
>Japan has avoided the madness of tariffs and trade wars that has affected the west recently. Instead they have been quietly negotiating trade deals with everyone and generally getting along. Good on them! Bilateral trade negotiation is exactly what Trump wants thought that's causing all of this shit.
ascar 8y ago
> Also it includes cheese, which will make westerners in Japan very happy. As a German living in Japan for the past four months I somewhat doubt that's going to change a lot. Maybe some lower prices in speciality stores, but I can't imagine my local supermarkets to stock more different cheese or that demand is rising just because a small piece of Camembert costs still expensive 3€ instead of 4€ (roughly converted from ¥), which I buy for 50 Cents in Germany. The prices are also so high, because it's an exotic food with no use in the local cousine, meaning low demand.
marak830 8y ago
Oh I didn't know about the cheese. You have just made my wife and I very excited! We have noticed a few things (kiwi fruit for example), becoming a lot cheaper lately(heck lopia had 12 for 600 yen last month!)
ekianjo 8y ago
Cheese will only get to zero tariff 16 years later only. Read the specifics.
riffraff 8y ago
is it really "the west"? AFAIK it's just "the US". The EU also signed a trade deal lowering tariffs with Canada (CETA) last year.
jayalpha 8y ago
Based on my understanding of Asian tastes, it likely will still make cheese a rather rare and expensive product. So I advise caution with the happiness. Reminds me of the guy who brought a shitload of blue cheese to Brazil and was surprised that he could not find it in his fridge anymore. Asking his domestica (household helper) she answered: Oh, yes, I threw it away. It was totally rotten!

titanix2 8y ago

> Also it includes cheese, which will make westerners in Japan very happy. Now that's effectively a big news worth sharing!

hkmurakami 8y ago

I still remember how horridly expensive cheese was in Japan. This is excellent news.

siruncledrew 8y ago
That's pretty interesting, is it expensive for all types of cheese from like kraft singles to french brie? Do you have any other stories of common EU/US items that are rare in Japan?
- stevekemp 8y ago
  I might be being a bit of a snob, but in the context of a cheese-related discussion kraft singles don't really rate mention.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    Are you even allowed to call them cheese? I thought they had to be labeled as a processed milk product or something.
    - gruez 8y ago
      They’re called “process cheese product”
      - telchar 8y ago
        Apparently that's the high end, the low end being "process American product slices". Not even allowed to use the word "cheese" in a name.
  - ctrl-j 8y ago
    Say what you will about Kraft singles, but they melt like nothing else. Kraft doesn't belong everywhere, but it has foodie applications. [0] [0] - https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american...
    - Foobar8568 8y ago
      Ever tried to grill raclette, vacherinn, gruyère, camembert, reblochon etc? For a couple of raw milk cheeses that are either dedicated to eat grilled/melt or "cold". Anything like Kraft singles is a joke
      - drak0n1c 8y ago
        There's a reason why people say "the best thing since sliced bread". Sliced cheese has similar structural advantages. What is convenient becomes popular - for better or worse.
        kaybe 8y ago
        You can buy some of those cheeses sliced or grated in the supermarket here. It's not a structural problem.
      - ctrl-j 8y ago
        Of the cheeses you've listed that I have tried, they all have a very strong flavor that would overwhelm a burger - sometimes a mild gooey flavor is exactly what is called for. Is there a cheese that you would consider to have a very mild chedderish flavor that has a more gooey sticky consistency like american cheese? What exactly about American cheese do you find so unpalatable? > Anything like Kraft singles is a joke Ridiculous dismissive statements like this aren't very helpful are they? If you want to be closed off, that's your prerogative. I'm certainly not going to be persuaded by such a comment devoid of substance, and I doubt you're going to change anyone else's mind with such a diminutive statement. It's just circlejerk snobbery - which is pretty much just bullshit.
    - 8y ago
- jayalpha 8y ago
  Most western food is likely more expensive. I can speak only for China. - Cheese. Good Cheese is expensive. - Milk is expensive - Floss and mouth wash was uncommon and expensive until recently. - dentures cleaners were super expensive (I use them for a retainer) - Wine is expensive. Both, western and Chinese
hinkley 8y ago
One of the weird, nearly constant cultural boundaries is fermented foods. I suspect even without the tariffs cheese will still be expensive in Japan. It doesn't really 'go' with a lot of the cuisine. I mean, if you handed me donburi with cheese in it I'd probably say, "Okay, that's weird but it could work so let me try it," but I'm wracking my brain trying to think what other dishes you could fit in it. Certainly ethnic food from Europe and the Americas, but how else would you go about naturalizing cheese into the diet?
- athenot 8y ago
  Cheese (at least in France) is not a topping but something consumed after the main course (and with bread). I could see a donbury followed by some mild cheeses. Perhaps stronger cheeses might even go with bonito flakes or other dried fish products. I'm sure some experimentation in pairing could yield some interesting results.
  - baby 8y ago
    Unless you're eating fondue, raclette, tartiflette, cheese with charcuterie, etc.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    So you're insisting that other cultures eat your fermented food as a standalone dish instead of as an ingredient, even after someone (me) pointed out how often that strategy fails? Oh boy.
  - ascar 8y ago
    That's probably only France, where cheese after meals is common. While it's frequently used as a topping in Italian cousine, it's nearly exclusively eaten on top of slices of (dark) bread as a standalone dish in German cousine (though Germans eat a lot of Italian food). The most American use of cheese (i.e. not Italian cousine related) is maybe the cheese flavored corn-snacks (e.g. cheetos).
    - hinkley 8y ago

x220 8y ago

>Also it includes cheese One of the best international treaties I've heard of

drak0n1c 8y ago

For those interested in why - Japan always had very high tariffs on cheese (40% on WTO, 37.5% on EU). In comparison, the US has a general tariff of 10% on cheese, with many exceptions making it 0%. http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2019_2/data/e_04.htm http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2019_2/data/e_04.htm https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=cheese https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=cheese Similarly high tariffs across the board on most imports has been the norm in Japan for decades, with many agricultural products also having quota limits. This led to potato shortages in 2017. Free trade is great when applied evenly. If it takes reciprocative pressure from the US to cause others think differently and change the status quo, so be it.

zeroname 8y ago
> Free trade is great when applied evenly. Free trade is great even when applied unevenly.
- Barrin92 8y ago
  Surprised this was being downvoted because it is true. If countries engage in protectionism unilaterally, they are predominantly harming their own consumers and undermining competition of their own businesses. As Friedman used to point out, if Japan wants to subsidize its steel at the cost of their own taxpayers, just take the cheap steel and be thankful for it.
  - Mirioron 8y ago
    VAT in the EU behaves in a similar manner as a tariff would. Yet we seem to be doing rather okay in that sense.
    - nroets 8y ago
      The VAT income of the state is the same regardless of where the product was manufactured. So it's not like a tariff at all.
    - ekianjo 8y ago

tareqak 8y ago

Canada has been doing the same [0]. A lot of effort does end up getting spent on managing relations with the U.S. which overshadows achievements elsewhere. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_Canad...

52-6F-62 8y ago
We started to. Then we got caught up in the spat with the US. And now China. I’d say we’re out. :(

pathseeker 8y ago

>Japan has avoided the madness of tariffs and trade wars that has affected the west recently. Instead they have been quietly negotiating trade deals with everyone and generally getting along. Good on them! Bilateral trade negotiation is exactly what Trump wants thought that's causing all of this shit.

ascar 8y ago

> Also it includes cheese, which will make westerners in Japan very happy. As a German living in Japan for the past four months I somewhat doubt that's going to change a lot. Maybe some lower prices in speciality stores, but I can't imagine my local supermarkets to stock more different cheese or that demand is rising just because a small piece of Camembert costs still expensive 3€ instead of 4€ (roughly converted from ¥), which I buy for 50 Cents in Germany. The prices are also so high, because it's an exotic food with no use in the local cousine, meaning low demand.

marak830 8y ago

Oh I didn't know about the cheese. You have just made my wife and I very excited! We have noticed a few things (kiwi fruit for example), becoming a lot cheaper lately(heck lopia had 12 for 600 yen last month!)

ekianjo 8y ago

Cheese will only get to zero tariff 16 years later only. Read the specifics.

riffraff 8y ago

is it really "the west"? AFAIK it's just "the US". The EU also signed a trade deal lowering tariffs with Canada (CETA) last year.

jayalpha 8y ago

Based on my understanding of Asian tastes, it likely will still make cheese a rather rare and expensive product. So I advise caution with the happiness. Reminds me of the guy who brought a shitload of blue cheese to Brazil and was surprised that he could not find it in his fridge anymore. Asking his domestica (household helper) she answered: Oh, yes, I threw it away. It was totally rotten!