5 ms·

I'm aware of that. But then that's a slightly different topic - why do some people believe in climate change where others do not? I mean, I believe in anthropom

I'm aware of that. But then that's a slightly different topic - why do some people believe in climate change where others do not? I mean, I believe in anthropomorphic climate change but that's not because I have read the scientific papers and understood the nuance and the data - it's because I trust that the media is at least reporting in the right ball park, even if the nuance is lacking and the accuracy is minimal. And also that it makes logical sense that we can't just pump chemicals into the atmosphere and the sea at our world-spanning civilisational scale and expect nothing bad to happen. But I think the whole issue comes down to a lack of trust in the media - if I already thought that the media is following a political agenda (or just exaggerating to get more views/shares) and then they started pushing climate change heavily, saying we need to aggressively regulate industries and eliminate blue-collar energy jobs in favour of high-tech clean energy (both generally considered left wing policies/strategies already) I would likely look at that with extreme skepticism. So we're back to the issue of media trustworthiness. I think media needs to earn back the trust of the right in order that climate change reporting be taken seriously. There's still going to be the issue of industry advocates pushing fake science, but that needs a whole different approach to tackle.

awinder 8y ago
> saying we need to aggressively regulate industries and eliminate blue-collar energy jobs in favour of high-tech clean energy (both generally considered left wing policies/strategies already) There’s 180K people employed in oil, coal, and natural gas jobs compared to 370K in solar. From a pure numbers standpoint this is just a completely farscical angle, but it’s a great example of why there is no true media bias problem, but there is a huge problem with stupid people who will believe anything and vote with fear.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  but you've just proved the point - the industry has shifted in favour of high tech over blue collar. I'm willing to bet that the disparity wasn't the same in the Bush era. I don't personally think it's a conspiracy - as I said, I believe that we need to attempt to counteract anthropomorphic climate change. But the evidence does bear the idea out. The idea that Republicans are all just morons is cancerous as fuck. And I'm British - I have no horse in that race. But seeing Democrats actively promote the idea that Republicans are white trash hillbilly redneck bumpkins with sub-80 IQ makes me really dislike those Democrats. Rather than basically claiming superiority over your political opponents, why not try to understand their position, and the circumstances that lead them to believe things different from what you believe? It's supreme arrogance to think you know everything and your opponents know nothing.
  - bzbarsky 8y ago
    For what it's worth, most of the jobs "in solar" are installers. Very much blue collar (also, fairly dangerous work). Agreed with the rest of your points.
    - beaconstudios 8y ago
      yes you do raise a great point actually. I think my mental model for the fuel economy shift is moving from red geographies to blue geographies (with innovation occurring inside universities and cleantech startups, and the majority of solar panels being installed in bluer states) but you're right in that there's still plenty of blue collar work involved.
- bzbarsky 8y ago
  I'm curious about the source of your numbers. In particular, see https://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/apr/25/brad-schneider/are-there-three-times-many-solar-energy-jobs-coal-/ https://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/apr/25/b... (which has numbers comparable to yours for solar, but 160k jobs for just coal, not counting oil and natural gas, in the US).
  - awinder 8y ago
    https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017%20US%20Energy%20and%20Jobs%20Report_0.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017%20U...
    - bzbarsky 8y ago
      Thank you for the link. Per that document, page 29, there are ~370k jobs in solar, yes. But there are ~160k jobs in coal, ~360k jobs in natural gas, and ~515k jobs in oil. Plus the ~36k jobs in "advanced gas", whatever that is. Unless you were talking about just the "electric power generation" column?

awinder 8y ago

> saying we need to aggressively regulate industries and eliminate blue-collar energy jobs in favour of high-tech clean energy (both generally considered left wing policies/strategies already) There’s 180K people employed in oil, coal, and natural gas jobs compared to 370K in solar. From a pure numbers standpoint this is just a completely farscical angle, but it’s a great example of why there is no true media bias problem, but there is a huge problem with stupid people who will believe anything and vote with fear.

beaconstudios 8y ago
but you've just proved the point - the industry has shifted in favour of high tech over blue collar. I'm willing to bet that the disparity wasn't the same in the Bush era. I don't personally think it's a conspiracy - as I said, I believe that we need to attempt to counteract anthropomorphic climate change. But the evidence does bear the idea out. The idea that Republicans are all just morons is cancerous as fuck. And I'm British - I have no horse in that race. But seeing Democrats actively promote the idea that Republicans are white trash hillbilly redneck bumpkins with sub-80 IQ makes me really dislike those Democrats. Rather than basically claiming superiority over your political opponents, why not try to understand their position, and the circumstances that lead them to believe things different from what you believe? It's supreme arrogance to think you know everything and your opponents know nothing.
- bzbarsky 8y ago
  For what it's worth, most of the jobs "in solar" are installers. Very much blue collar (also, fairly dangerous work). Agreed with the rest of your points.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    yes you do raise a great point actually. I think my mental model for the fuel economy shift is moving from red geographies to blue geographies (with innovation occurring inside universities and cleantech startups, and the majority of solar panels being installed in bluer states) but you're right in that there's still plenty of blue collar work involved.
bzbarsky 8y ago
I'm curious about the source of your numbers. In particular, see https://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/apr/25/brad-schneider/are-there-three-times-many-solar-energy-jobs-coal-/ https://www.politifact.com/illinois/statements/2017/apr/25/b... (which has numbers comparable to yours for solar, but 160k jobs for just coal, not counting oil and natural gas, in the US).
- awinder 8y ago
  https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017%20US%20Energy%20and%20Jobs%20Report_0.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017%20U...
  - bzbarsky 8y ago
    Thank you for the link. Per that document, page 29, there are ~370k jobs in solar, yes. But there are ~160k jobs in coal, ~360k jobs in natural gas, and ~515k jobs in oil. Plus the ~36k jobs in "advanced gas", whatever that is. Unless you were talking about just the "electric power generation" column?