6 ms·

> But in France, at least, comic books were taken seriously as an art form, Peeters said. “When I was a young author I came from a more literary world,” he said

by Hoasi 8y ago

> But in France, at least, comic books were taken seriously as an art form, Peeters said. “When I was a young author I came from a more literary world,” he said. “People said, ‘What are you doing with comics? You are a clever person. You should work with movies or literature.’ Now, nobody would say that.” Contrast this with a petition initiated and signed by a collective of authors, including Benoît Peeters: https://collectifartistesauteurs.tumblr.com/post/170044076551/la-hausse-récente-de-la-csg-pour-lensemble-des https://collectifartistesauteurs.tumblr.com/post/17004407655... Maybe the art form is taken seriously, yet over half of the comic books, authors cannot make a decent living off this profession in France today.

2ion 8y ago
The golden age of Belgo-French comic artists and authors may have been 1960-1990, at least all my favourite series are from this time. They are incredible to this day and always a pleasure to reread. Like Yoko Tsuno by Leloup, Gaston by Franquin, Spirou & Fantasio (esp. the books my Tome and Janry), Valerian and Veronique by Mézières and Christin, Asterix and Obelix, and many more. I'm pretty content that for the length of my childhood, I could read through an entire treasure trove of works that already existed, and wait more the latest ones. Except for the Disney Duck universe, all the other American comic books look very much subpar in quality in direct comparison, regardless of whether in print or as movies, esp. the super hero ones. Sad to see the industry turn this way.
- pbalau 8y ago
  How could you miss Tintin?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - 2ion 8y ago
    We call it "Tim and Struppi" here. Never liked it very much. Though I also forgot e.g. Lucky Luke which I liked very much. There are quite a lot good series. I'm trying to remember the name of one specific comic or series though: sci-fi theme, floating city in space, many different races live there, there is an elite humanoid alien race with blue skin and 6 eyes in 2 columns, with blue blood wearing skin-tight shiny armor, with psycho-kinetic powers, human male poses as one of them and kills a female alien possibly to steal her power, steals also her space ship, IIRC a chase through the space city ensues. Maybe somebody knows the book, I absolutely cannot remember if this is from Valerian or something else, any hint would be grately appreciated. I think I read it last 20 years ago. Text was in German. Typical Carlsen/Egmont comic book format. Edit: It's NOT Yoko Tsuno "City of the Banished Ones". Different series or one-shot.
    - Darkstryder 8y ago
      French here. Your description reminds me a hell of a lot of Valerian and Laureline "Sur les frontières" : https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?field-keywords=9782205046656&tag=bedefr-21 https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?field-keywords=978220... You should check it out. (Not sure about the actual translated English title, but a literal translation would be "On the frontiers") Most Valerian comics are great by the way, and they all have been republished recently, at least in France (and probably also US because of the -rather disappointing- Besson's movie)
      - 2ion 8y ago
        YES – that's exactly it, I remember the cover. Thanks!
  - mercer 8y ago
    And Lucky Luke, from the writer of Asterix!
- vidarh 8y ago
  Incidentally, Gaston is finally being published in English after several abortive attempts, as Gomer Goof [EDIT: as an illustration of just how weak the comics market is in the US: Gaston, along with Spirou and Marsupilami, as well as Idées Noires, were all published even in Norwegian - with 5 million Norwegian speakers - pretty much as they were published; Idées Noires was also finally translated to English last year as Franquin's Last Laugh] There are some gems in American comics too, but part of the problem is that they're often impossible to follow with the incessant cross-overs and re-numbering. Couple that with having the choice of either wafer thin issues or waiting for trade paperback collections, and it's no wonder comics has declined into a niche in the US.
  - ddrdrck_ 8y ago
    It sounds crazy to me that Franquin's masterworks (Gaston and Idées Noires) were not yet translated in English yet ! For sure it would not appeal to US mass market but certainly there is also a small connoisseur market out there ?
- webmobdev 8y ago
  Except for Asterix & Obelix, I haven't come across any of those comics mentioned by you. Are they available in English translation?
  - ahje 8y ago
    Some are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio#Translations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio#Translation...
  - zephyrfalcon 8y ago
    It seems so. On Amazon I found Yoko Tsuno, Gomer Goof (English name of Gaston Lagaffe), Spirou & Fantasio, Valerian and Laureline. Personally I would like to add recommendations for stuff like Lucky Luke, Ekho and Blacksad.
eloisant 8y ago
Well I don't think most writers of "more serious books" can make a living from that either.
bArray 8y ago
>Maybe the art form is taken seriously, yet over half of the comic books, authors cannot make a decent living off this profession in France today. That's not surprising to me, many artists don't get paid a decent living wage for their work (i.e. musicians, painters, video creators, etc). It's an unfortunate reality of going solo and trying to start a sustainable business.
- brador 8y ago
  Capitalism, by it’s very nature, abhors art and its appreciation as something unproductive. It will not survive much longer under this system.
  - mathnmusic 8y ago
    Capitalism cares about value, not productivity. If people value something, capitalism will deliver it for you. People do value the arts, but the pricing is broken because a present-day artist has to compete not just with peers but also the ancient greats.
    - purple-again 8y ago
      Also the entertainment budget is usually the last budget after everything else. And a lot of things compete for the entertainment budget. Of course weee taking about the masses here not the .01% or art collectors. Those same people are very conscious about wasting their limited funds so faces wirh the product of 10,000 artists they tend to only spend money on the ‘best’ (could be Twilight) which is usually driven by what’s popular. Things become popular almost entirely though control over marketing and distribution. These days we have a better chance of going viral but the old gatekeepers are still picking most winners and losers.
  - bunderbunder 8y ago
    I'm inclined to say it's just the opposite. In capitalist societies, art tends to be much more diverse, and all sorts of artists make lots of money at it. Not as many as want to, sure, and one could argue endlessly over which artists are under- or overrated, but, regardless, no artist gets as rich as Jeff Koons (or Steven Spielberg) outside of capitalism. Moreover, art is pretty tightly constrained in non-capitalist societies. In communist ones, it tends to be limited to traditional forms and propaganda. In mercantilist ones, it was traditional forms or, if you could find a patron, whatever would keep your patron happy.
kome 8y ago
The same is true for artist in general...

by Hoasi 8y ago

2ion 8y ago

The golden age of Belgo-French comic artists and authors may have been 1960-1990, at least all my favourite series are from this time. They are incredible to this day and always a pleasure to reread. Like Yoko Tsuno by Leloup, Gaston by Franquin, Spirou & Fantasio (esp. the books my Tome and Janry), Valerian and Veronique by Mézières and Christin, Asterix and Obelix, and many more. I'm pretty content that for the length of my childhood, I could read through an entire treasure trove of works that already existed, and wait more the latest ones. Except for the Disney Duck universe, all the other American comic books look very much subpar in quality in direct comparison, regardless of whether in print or as movies, esp. the super hero ones. Sad to see the industry turn this way.

pbalau 8y ago
How could you miss Tintin?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- 2ion 8y ago
  We call it "Tim and Struppi" here. Never liked it very much. Though I also forgot e.g. Lucky Luke which I liked very much. There are quite a lot good series. I'm trying to remember the name of one specific comic or series though: sci-fi theme, floating city in space, many different races live there, there is an elite humanoid alien race with blue skin and 6 eyes in 2 columns, with blue blood wearing skin-tight shiny armor, with psycho-kinetic powers, human male poses as one of them and kills a female alien possibly to steal her power, steals also her space ship, IIRC a chase through the space city ensues. Maybe somebody knows the book, I absolutely cannot remember if this is from Valerian or something else, any hint would be grately appreciated. I think I read it last 20 years ago. Text was in German. Typical Carlsen/Egmont comic book format. Edit: It's NOT Yoko Tsuno "City of the Banished Ones". Different series or one-shot.
  - Darkstryder 8y ago
    French here. Your description reminds me a hell of a lot of Valerian and Laureline "Sur les frontières" : https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?field-keywords=9782205046656&tag=bedefr-21 https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?field-keywords=978220... You should check it out. (Not sure about the actual translated English title, but a literal translation would be "On the frontiers") Most Valerian comics are great by the way, and they all have been republished recently, at least in France (and probably also US because of the -rather disappointing- Besson's movie)
    - 2ion 8y ago
      YES – that's exactly it, I remember the cover. Thanks!
- mercer 8y ago
  And Lucky Luke, from the writer of Asterix!
vidarh 8y ago
Incidentally, Gaston is finally being published in English after several abortive attempts, as Gomer Goof [EDIT: as an illustration of just how weak the comics market is in the US: Gaston, along with Spirou and Marsupilami, as well as Idées Noires, were all published even in Norwegian - with 5 million Norwegian speakers - pretty much as they were published; Idées Noires was also finally translated to English last year as Franquin's Last Laugh] There are some gems in American comics too, but part of the problem is that they're often impossible to follow with the incessant cross-overs and re-numbering. Couple that with having the choice of either wafer thin issues or waiting for trade paperback collections, and it's no wonder comics has declined into a niche in the US.
- ddrdrck_ 8y ago
  It sounds crazy to me that Franquin's masterworks (Gaston and Idées Noires) were not yet translated in English yet ! For sure it would not appeal to US mass market but certainly there is also a small connoisseur market out there ?
webmobdev 8y ago
Except for Asterix & Obelix, I haven't come across any of those comics mentioned by you. Are they available in English translation?
- ahje 8y ago
  Some are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio#Translations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio#Translation...
- zephyrfalcon 8y ago
  It seems so. On Amazon I found Yoko Tsuno, Gomer Goof (English name of Gaston Lagaffe), Spirou & Fantasio, Valerian and Laureline. Personally I would like to add recommendations for stuff like Lucky Luke, Ekho and Blacksad.

eloisant 8y ago

Well I don't think most writers of "more serious books" can make a living from that either.

bArray 8y ago

>Maybe the art form is taken seriously, yet over half of the comic books, authors cannot make a decent living off this profession in France today. That's not surprising to me, many artists don't get paid a decent living wage for their work (i.e. musicians, painters, video creators, etc). It's an unfortunate reality of going solo and trying to start a sustainable business.

brador 8y ago
Capitalism, by it’s very nature, abhors art and its appreciation as something unproductive. It will not survive much longer under this system.
- mathnmusic 8y ago
  Capitalism cares about value, not productivity. If people value something, capitalism will deliver it for you. People do value the arts, but the pricing is broken because a present-day artist has to compete not just with peers but also the ancient greats.
  - purple-again 8y ago
    Also the entertainment budget is usually the last budget after everything else. And a lot of things compete for the entertainment budget. Of course weee taking about the masses here not the .01% or art collectors. Those same people are very conscious about wasting their limited funds so faces wirh the product of 10,000 artists they tend to only spend money on the ‘best’ (could be Twilight) which is usually driven by what’s popular. Things become popular almost entirely though control over marketing and distribution. These days we have a better chance of going viral but the old gatekeepers are still picking most winners and losers.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  I'm inclined to say it's just the opposite. In capitalist societies, art tends to be much more diverse, and all sorts of artists make lots of money at it. Not as many as want to, sure, and one could argue endlessly over which artists are under- or overrated, but, regardless, no artist gets as rich as Jeff Koons (or Steven Spielberg) outside of capitalism. Moreover, art is pretty tightly constrained in non-capitalist societies. In communist ones, it tends to be limited to traditional forms and propaganda. In mercantilist ones, it was traditional forms or, if you could find a patron, whatever would keep your patron happy.

kome 8y ago

The same is true for artist in general...