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> The decision comes after the Catalan government insisted on imposing a 15-minute delay before passengers could be picked up. I agree that the Uber model is p

> The decision comes after the Catalan government insisted on imposing a 15-minute delay before passengers could be picked up. I agree that the Uber model is problematic but making the taxi service worse for everyone (harder to order a cab for right where you are / right now) to level the field seems really shortsighted.

point78 8y ago
The 15 minute delay was only for Uber
- zavi 8y ago
  This seems irrational. What's the argument behind such requirement?
  - ptmvp 8y ago
    It is rational from a self-serving standpoint from the taxist point of reference. The rational is to hurt Uber and consumers and by doing so giving Taxis an advantage (ie, they can now reach you faster than a Uber). It is a huge loss if you look at it from a societal welfare point of view.
    - mulmen 8y ago
      I think the social welfare math is more complicated than you suggest. The cab driver jobs saved may offset the inconvenience for example. Certainly from a car-hailing-rider perspective the Uber wait is worse but social welfare is much more complex.
      - ptmvp 8y ago
        I agree it is more complicated than what I outlined above, but I do think the aggregate welfare lost from the detriment in service quality of car-hailing multiplied by the number of potential consumers hurt represents a bigger loss than any gain cab-drivers could obtain with this measure. I find the measure exactly the wrong type of regulation, the one that hurts a large segment of society to protect a small group (which had already benefited from a decades-long state imposed monopoly and became stagnant and comformist as a result). As a small disclaimer, I do admit I have a bias against cab-drivers in general, but I do not think it clouds my judgement in this case.
        mulmen 8y ago
        I agree it is a bad form of regulation. Uber has benefits to consumers but it’s unclear to me what other benefits they offer to society as a whole. The regulatory structures need to catch up but I don’t think Uber as it exists in 2019 is a viable long term solution.
      - narag 8y ago
        The cab driver jobs saved may offset the inconvenience for example. On the contrary, the measure instantly caused the loss of thousands of jobs.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    It provides an advantage to cab companies?
  - dominicr 8y ago
    I don't know the details but it could because in many countries there are different licenses for taxis that can pick up off the street, as opposed to licensed car services that can only be pre-booked. Uber tends to operate as the latter, using the laws for a pre-booked taxi service. This law is obviously protection for the classic taxis by giving a legal standard to what it means to be pre-booked. They can claim to be just clarifying an existing law.
  - tecleandor 8y ago
    The law about VTCs (that is, vehicles rented with a driver [which are not taxis]) is, similarly to limo services in some other countries, that they cannot pick people on the street, and they need, previously to picking up the client, some short of "service sheet": A sheet detailing their trips and the client information. (I'm simplifying a lot) In the past that meant they needed to go back to the base, pick their "service sheet" for the next jobs, and then go make their thing. If you needed a ride for "right now", the VTC wasn't your choice. VTC, are/were widely used, for example, on TV production. The VTC driver received their "work sheet" in the morning and they would go and "pick the host at 7, the guest at 9, the other guest at 10, take the host to the airport at 12...". Now, with the apps, the app is your "work sheet", so even if you can't pick people on the street in theory, in practice it's like you can, because I can check in the app how many VTCs are near, and "order" one which will get here almost instantly, because they don't need to go back to the base to get their "work sheet". So, that's the argument on requiring some minimum delay when ordering a VTC. For me, the 24h delay is ridiculous, as even with the classic "analog paper work sheet", you could call the base for a driver, and if they had somebody there, send you one in half an hour, so it makes no sense. Anyway, my main concern with VTCs is workers rights, as, AFAIK, none of them have contracts, and are freelancers stranded with an expensive car renting, with promises of having steady work from their employers.

point78 8y ago

The 15 minute delay was only for Uber

zavi 8y ago
This seems irrational. What's the argument behind such requirement?
- ptmvp 8y ago
  It is rational from a self-serving standpoint from the taxist point of reference. The rational is to hurt Uber and consumers and by doing so giving Taxis an advantage (ie, they can now reach you faster than a Uber). It is a huge loss if you look at it from a societal welfare point of view.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    I think the social welfare math is more complicated than you suggest. The cab driver jobs saved may offset the inconvenience for example. Certainly from a car-hailing-rider perspective the Uber wait is worse but social welfare is much more complex.
    - ptmvp 8y ago
      I agree it is more complicated than what I outlined above, but I do think the aggregate welfare lost from the detriment in service quality of car-hailing multiplied by the number of potential consumers hurt represents a bigger loss than any gain cab-drivers could obtain with this measure. I find the measure exactly the wrong type of regulation, the one that hurts a large segment of society to protect a small group (which had already benefited from a decades-long state imposed monopoly and became stagnant and comformist as a result). As a small disclaimer, I do admit I have a bias against cab-drivers in general, but I do not think it clouds my judgement in this case.
      - mulmen 8y ago
        I agree it is a bad form of regulation. Uber has benefits to consumers but it’s unclear to me what other benefits they offer to society as a whole. The regulatory structures need to catch up but I don’t think Uber as it exists in 2019 is a viable long term solution.
    - narag 8y ago
      The cab driver jobs saved may offset the inconvenience for example. On the contrary, the measure instantly caused the loss of thousands of jobs.
- mulmen 8y ago
  It provides an advantage to cab companies?
- dominicr 8y ago
  I don't know the details but it could because in many countries there are different licenses for taxis that can pick up off the street, as opposed to licensed car services that can only be pre-booked. Uber tends to operate as the latter, using the laws for a pre-booked taxi service. This law is obviously protection for the classic taxis by giving a legal standard to what it means to be pre-booked. They can claim to be just clarifying an existing law.
- tecleandor 8y ago
  The law about VTCs (that is, vehicles rented with a driver [which are not taxis]) is, similarly to limo services in some other countries, that they cannot pick people on the street, and they need, previously to picking up the client, some short of "service sheet": A sheet detailing their trips and the client information. (I'm simplifying a lot) In the past that meant they needed to go back to the base, pick their "service sheet" for the next jobs, and then go make their thing. If you needed a ride for "right now", the VTC wasn't your choice. VTC, are/were widely used, for example, on TV production. The VTC driver received their "work sheet" in the morning and they would go and "pick the host at 7, the guest at 9, the other guest at 10, take the host to the airport at 12...". Now, with the apps, the app is your "work sheet", so even if you can't pick people on the street in theory, in practice it's like you can, because I can check in the app how many VTCs are near, and "order" one which will get here almost instantly, because they don't need to go back to the base to get their "work sheet". So, that's the argument on requiring some minimum delay when ordering a VTC. For me, the 24h delay is ridiculous, as even with the classic "analog paper work sheet", you could call the base for a driver, and if they had somebody there, send you one in half an hour, so it makes no sense. Anyway, my main concern with VTCs is workers rights, as, AFAIK, none of them have contracts, and are freelancers stranded with an expensive car renting, with promises of having steady work from their employers.