5 ms·

Absolutely. USSR, at that stage in the cold war was living everyday with an existential crisis. It would not be uncommon for them to be so paranoid. And, it's a

Absolutely. USSR, at that stage in the cold war was living everyday with an existential crisis. It would not be uncommon for them to be so paranoid. And, it's a smart move. The amount of scientific and technological know-how generated from such a project would be tremendous. And the USSR military leaders would have surely known that. Also, having honed in onto a very serious threat, spreading the information of that threat among it's scientists and pushing them towards a goal is an incredible motivation building tool. You can't make a scientist work effectively under threat of punishment. But tell him that his work will save his motherland, and you are on.

arethuza 8y ago
Not to defend the Soviets, but their paranoia was kind of justified - from the earliest days of the Soviet regime they faced foreign interventions, through to the Nazi invasion then Cold War era threats from the US and its allies. Of course this all nearly backfired on everyone with Operation RYAN and Able Archer 83 when the paranoia of the Soviet leadership was at such a crazed level that they thought the West was planning a first strike so they thought their only option was to strike first.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Well, in the late 40s, the US was not so subtly threatening to nuke the Soviets. Some even argue that they nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki primarily as a threat to the Soviets.[0] 0) https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-may-have-carried-hidden-agenda/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-m...
  - arethuza 8y ago
    Curtis LeMay wanted to attack the Soviets - from this perspective there was a grim logic to this - he (correctly) realised that at some point the Soviets would reach parity in strategic weapons with the US and he (incorrectly) thought that a conflict was inevitable - so he wanted to destroy the Soviet Union while the US could do it without any direct impact on the US. Thankfully, he didn't get his way.
    - cm2187 8y ago
      But he may have been right under Stalin. I think what saved us is that Stalin died before Russia had built a large enough capability. And its successors were less indifferent to the loss of life of tens of millions of their citizens.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Yes, that's what I was thinking of. But I'd forgotten LeMay's name :( And I also vaguely remember something about an attack plan by George C. Marshall.
      - arethuza 8y ago
        Le May was ruthless, but his successor at SAC General Thomas Power sounded like a character from Dr Strangelove: "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Power
      - lstroud 8y ago
        If memory serves, Patton was a huge advocate for continuing past Berlin to Moscow.
        arethuza 8y ago
        Not sure that would have been a good idea - the Soviet Red Army was immensely strong and had just done most of the work in defeating the Nazis and the US didn't have man (any?) atom bombs left at the end of the war.
        lainga 8y ago
        They didn't have any to start with in May '45, the Trinity test was in July
    - 7952 8y ago
- gandhium 8y ago
  > from the earliest days of the Soviet regime they faced foreign interventions Well, to show the world that they were peaceful, they've started... to invade and occupy their neighbors, trying to incite revolutions around and generally behaving like a huge threat to world peace. Even directly after WW2 they've tried to annex part of Iran/Persia and wrangle Bosphor Straits from Turkey.
- gdy 8y ago
  That was hardly a paranoia, more like justified fear. See this article about operation Giant Lance simulating nuclear attack on the USSR during Vietnam war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance
qaq 8y ago
"You can't make a scientist work effectively under threat of punishment" https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/soviet-science-stalin/525576/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/soviet-s...
avmich 8y ago
> USSR, at that stage in the cold war was living everyday with an existential crisis. It would not be uncommon for them to be so paranoid. And, it's a smart move. The amount of scientific and technological know-how generated from such a project would be tremendous. And the USSR military leaders would have surely known that. Shuttle was under development in 1976, and Energia-Buran as well. 70's are relatively successful years for USSR, that's why a project of such magnitude was undertaken.

arethuza 8y ago

Not to defend the Soviets, but their paranoia was kind of justified - from the earliest days of the Soviet regime they faced foreign interventions, through to the Nazi invasion then Cold War era threats from the US and its allies. Of course this all nearly backfired on everyone with Operation RYAN and Able Archer 83 when the paranoia of the Soviet leadership was at such a crazed level that they thought the West was planning a first strike so they thought their only option was to strike first.

mirimir 8y ago
Well, in the late 40s, the US was not so subtly threatening to nuke the Soviets. Some even argue that they nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki primarily as a threat to the Soviets.[0] 0) https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-may-have-carried-hidden-agenda/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-m...
- arethuza 8y ago
  Curtis LeMay wanted to attack the Soviets - from this perspective there was a grim logic to this - he (correctly) realised that at some point the Soviets would reach parity in strategic weapons with the US and he (incorrectly) thought that a conflict was inevitable - so he wanted to destroy the Soviet Union while the US could do it without any direct impact on the US. Thankfully, he didn't get his way.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    But he may have been right under Stalin. I think what saved us is that Stalin died before Russia had built a large enough capability. And its successors were less indifferent to the loss of life of tens of millions of their citizens.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Yes, that's what I was thinking of. But I'd forgotten LeMay's name :( And I also vaguely remember something about an attack plan by George C. Marshall.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      Le May was ruthless, but his successor at SAC General Thomas Power sounded like a character from Dr Strangelove: "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_S._Power
    - lstroud 8y ago
      If memory serves, Patton was a huge advocate for continuing past Berlin to Moscow.
      - arethuza 8y ago
        Not sure that would have been a good idea - the Soviet Red Army was immensely strong and had just done most of the work in defeating the Nazis and the US didn't have man (any?) atom bombs left at the end of the war.
        lainga 8y ago
        They didn't have any to start with in May '45, the Trinity test was in July
  - 7952 8y ago
gandhium 8y ago
> from the earliest days of the Soviet regime they faced foreign interventions Well, to show the world that they were peaceful, they've started... to invade and occupy their neighbors, trying to incite revolutions around and generally behaving like a huge threat to world peace. Even directly after WW2 they've tried to annex part of Iran/Persia and wrangle Bosphor Straits from Turkey.
gdy 8y ago
That was hardly a paranoia, more like justified fear. See this article about operation Giant Lance simulating nuclear attack on the USSR during Vietnam war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance

qaq 8y ago

"You can't make a scientist work effectively under threat of punishment" https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/soviet-science-stalin/525576/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/soviet-s...

avmich 8y ago

> USSR, at that stage in the cold war was living everyday with an existential crisis. It would not be uncommon for them to be so paranoid. And, it's a smart move. The amount of scientific and technological know-how generated from such a project would be tremendous. And the USSR military leaders would have surely known that. Shuttle was under development in 1976, and Energia-Buran as well. 70's are relatively successful years for USSR, that's why a project of such magnitude was undertaken.