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"Like the field of software development, the application of machine learning is a meritocracy. A meritocracy is a structure under which participants are valued

"Like the field of software development, the application of machine learning is a meritocracy. A meritocracy is a structure under which participants are valued based on their contributions or demonstrated achievement (merit)." So far we've figured out that software development clearly isn't a meritocracy.

natalyarostova 8y ago
As someone who was never considered prestigious enough for my first field (finance) who switched and has been successful in big tech, I can vouch it is way better than fields like finance and law
- smacktoward 8y ago
  "More meritocratic than finance and law" is not exactly a high bar to clear.
  - natalyarostova 8y ago
    Maybe not, nontheless it does, and I'm thankful for that.
    - donaldknuth123 8y ago
      Heroin is safer than Fentanyl. Therefore I am thankful for heroin.
dijit 8y ago
I think people aren't super clear on what they expect from meritocracy, this leads to statements like yours. Speaking personally, I grew up in an incredibly deprived part of my nation, I have little in the way of formal education and I definitely do not have connections. However I have achieved incredible social mobility due to technology. Why? because there is _some_ level of meritocracy going on even if it's not entirely widespread through every single hiring manager or company and I have a deep unyielding passion for this field that drives me to continually educate myself which despite my poor connections and education is looked at favourably. I still think of meritocracy as a noble goal, and I feel that merit is certainly definable if that's the main issue (IE; points based on time spent contributing to open source and things like invitations to speaking engagements and the like). I genuinely do not buy the argument that having "merit" in other areas infers that you have license to be a toxic asshole; because at (least in my mind) part of merit is being able to work with others. You don't have "merit" if you can't communicate effectively. In fact, there is an old saying about that: "Lots of MIPS but no I/O" which would make for a shitty CPU. Why would it make for a non-shitty developer?
- meheleventyone 8y ago
  I think meritocracy is the wrong phrasing for all of that though. Basically it boils down to there being slightly different standards around formal education than might be expected in some other career paths. I also think a lot of that is a perceived difference in standards and I've not seen any actual evidence that software engineering as a career field is genuinely more accessible to people without formal qualifications. Even though I believe that to be the case as well. There of course are still standards and lots of disagreement on whether they are merit based (e.g. whiteboarding interviews) and evidence that women and other minorities are systematically excluded in the whole, which is clearly not merit based. Further whilst I think many of us could define what merit means for any particular job or find consensus in a group making that decision. I still expect there would be large differences between definitions and methods of selection.
xamuel 8y ago
Compared to a lot of other fields, software development is such a screaming meritocracy, we're practically living in a real life utopia. Where else can you literally write your own ticket to a 200k+ salary without so much as a high school diploma?--IF you have the skills, that is. Compare medicine: you could walk on water and raise the dead, but good luck getting a position without certification!

natalyarostova 8y ago

As someone who was never considered prestigious enough for my first field (finance) who switched and has been successful in big tech, I can vouch it is way better than fields like finance and law

smacktoward 8y ago
"More meritocratic than finance and law" is not exactly a high bar to clear.
- natalyarostova 8y ago
  Maybe not, nontheless it does, and I'm thankful for that.
  - donaldknuth123 8y ago
    Heroin is safer than Fentanyl. Therefore I am thankful for heroin.

dijit 8y ago

I think people aren't super clear on what they expect from meritocracy, this leads to statements like yours. Speaking personally, I grew up in an incredibly deprived part of my nation, I have little in the way of formal education and I definitely do not have connections. However I have achieved incredible social mobility due to technology. Why? because there is _some_ level of meritocracy going on even if it's not entirely widespread through every single hiring manager or company and I have a deep unyielding passion for this field that drives me to continually educate myself which despite my poor connections and education is looked at favourably. I still think of meritocracy as a noble goal, and I feel that merit is certainly definable if that's the main issue (IE; points based on time spent contributing to open source and things like invitations to speaking engagements and the like). I genuinely do not buy the argument that having "merit" in other areas infers that you have license to be a toxic asshole; because at (least in my mind) part of merit is being able to work with others. You don't have "merit" if you can't communicate effectively. In fact, there is an old saying about that: "Lots of MIPS but no I/O" which would make for a shitty CPU. Why would it make for a non-shitty developer?

meheleventyone 8y ago
I think meritocracy is the wrong phrasing for all of that though. Basically it boils down to there being slightly different standards around formal education than might be expected in some other career paths. I also think a lot of that is a perceived difference in standards and I've not seen any actual evidence that software engineering as a career field is genuinely more accessible to people without formal qualifications. Even though I believe that to be the case as well. There of course are still standards and lots of disagreement on whether they are merit based (e.g. whiteboarding interviews) and evidence that women and other minorities are systematically excluded in the whole, which is clearly not merit based. Further whilst I think many of us could define what merit means for any particular job or find consensus in a group making that decision. I still expect there would be large differences between definitions and methods of selection.

xamuel 8y ago

Compared to a lot of other fields, software development is such a screaming meritocracy, we're practically living in a real life utopia. Where else can you literally write your own ticket to a 200k+ salary without so much as a high school diploma?--IF you have the skills, that is. Compare medicine: you could walk on water and raise the dead, but good luck getting a position without certification!