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I used to work in the SIGINT world. It is rife with contractors who are ex-military, often have no degree, and can get paid triple-digit salaries for doing the

I used to work in the SIGINT world. It is rife with contractors who are ex-military, often have no degree, and can get paid triple-digit salaries for doing the same work they were doing in the military. I would estimate 80% of my military buddies are still working as either contractors or government employees in the intelligence field. I have been offered $250K+ (tax free!) to deploy to Afghanistan on several occasions.. because they need bodies over there and it's risky. They weren't pitching esprit de corps or a just war to me, it was solely $$$. This isn't Band of Brothers. This is a war of choice not need. By avoiding a draft via a standing professional military, and then outsourcing much of that military's internal workings to contractors we have created a mercenary culture. Same as the Romans. Fixing this requires a political will that I wish we could muster.

AndrewKemendo 8y ago
I think this is the biggest disgrace in the US. If we actually imposed the costs of wars on the American Public, like we did in WWII, we wouldn't be doing as much war. Instead we "outsource" the costs to private contractors which overcharge because "pensions are more expensive than contract labor." We need to take any and all profit out of war by eliminating as much contract labor as possible. That's easy and perfectly fit to do with software. Which is why I joined Kessel Run as a government civilian, to bring software engineering in-house to the Air Force instead of contracting it.
- int_19h 8y ago
  It's not just carrying the cost. By removing conscription and relying entirely on volunteers, we have also turned out military into a caste. Literally so - it's more and more common to have entire intergenerational families in service. And once it becomes a caste, it starts drifting apart. Politically, that is fairly obvious if you look at the polls. There's a surprising geographic component to it, too - for one thing, disproportionally many recruits come from specific geographic regions (mostly the South). And there are several municipalities around the country where most people who live there are veterans and their families. The real problem, though, is that such a military caste starts seeing it as separate and distinct from the rest of the country. https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/1428887/deconstructing-the-warrior-caste-the-beliefs-and-backgrounds-of-senior-military/ https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/1428887/deconstructi... And that, in turn, allows for sentiments like these to develop: "I am irritated by the apathy, lack of patriotic fervor, and generally anti-military and anti-American sentiment. I often wonder if my forefathers were as filled with disgust and anger when they thought of the people they were fighting to protect as I am." If such sentiments become prevalent, how long will the military tolerate civilian control, if it considers the controlling civilian government to be run by people with "anti-American sentiment"?
  - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
    Spot on. To add to that, this caste now is deeply embedded in the military-industrial complex, so the pathway is clear: Enlist/Commission, Serve for some period (maybe even retire at 39), Join a defense contractor and ride into the sunset with dual retirements. All footed by public debt. It's pretty sickening from the inside.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      It's also frustrating to see double standards for veterans and non-veterans in the career tracks. The military-industrial complex contractor companies create a lot of sinecures, so that "retired" veterans actually have a place to go to work. It's a bit of a drag on each company, but the people writing the contracts are also military or ex-military, so they will write requirements into the contracts, such that those jobs positions have to exist and be filled in order to be the prime contractor. It would be a better jobs program for veterans to just keep them gainfully employed by the military somehow. Or send them back to school before retirement, to be educated for useful civilian skills. You might be surprised at how many people have jobs whose only real qualification is half a lifetime of filling out a specific form.
  - MisterOctober 8y ago
    To be fair, inter-generational military families / military caste was de rigeur long before we switched to an all-volunteer force. The McCains are a good recent example. Personally, I dunno if I necessarily oppose the phenomenon -- if we accept military work as a legitimate field, I guess that wisdom passed through generations is desirable, even if it comes with similarly inherited attitudes. As example from other disciplines: farming and doctoring families are common and undoubtedly benefit from the dynastic nature of their trades.
    - billfruit 8y ago
      I read somewhere that during the early years of the US government, well into the 19th century, the govt was very wary of such a military caste getting established, and many well qualified individuals were denied commissions because their fathers/grand fathers/other immediate family had held commissions.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Well then you have to stop paying "poverty wages" for the technical skills required. Btw this is a what a ex squaddie mate of mine said when he got a pitch from UK TLA on linked in. I get the strong impression that the nat sec community is stuck in the 1940's and 50's still thinks they can get high end cyber skills and pay enlisted wages - a cheery working class chap in the films he be played by Norman wisdom or George Formby

AndrewKemendo 8y ago

I think this is the biggest disgrace in the US. If we actually imposed the costs of wars on the American Public, like we did in WWII, we wouldn't be doing as much war. Instead we "outsource" the costs to private contractors which overcharge because "pensions are more expensive than contract labor." We need to take any and all profit out of war by eliminating as much contract labor as possible. That's easy and perfectly fit to do with software. Which is why I joined Kessel Run as a government civilian, to bring software engineering in-house to the Air Force instead of contracting it.

int_19h 8y ago
It's not just carrying the cost. By removing conscription and relying entirely on volunteers, we have also turned out military into a caste. Literally so - it's more and more common to have entire intergenerational families in service. And once it becomes a caste, it starts drifting apart. Politically, that is fairly obvious if you look at the polls. There's a surprising geographic component to it, too - for one thing, disproportionally many recruits come from specific geographic regions (mostly the South). And there are several municipalities around the country where most people who live there are veterans and their families. The real problem, though, is that such a military caste starts seeing it as separate and distinct from the rest of the country. https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/1428887/deconstructing-the-warrior-caste-the-beliefs-and-backgrounds-of-senior-military/ https://inss.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/1428887/deconstructi... And that, in turn, allows for sentiments like these to develop: "I am irritated by the apathy, lack of patriotic fervor, and generally anti-military and anti-American sentiment. I often wonder if my forefathers were as filled with disgust and anger when they thought of the people they were fighting to protect as I am." If such sentiments become prevalent, how long will the military tolerate civilian control, if it considers the controlling civilian government to be run by people with "anti-American sentiment"?
- AndrewKemendo 8y ago
  Spot on. To add to that, this caste now is deeply embedded in the military-industrial complex, so the pathway is clear: Enlist/Commission, Serve for some period (maybe even retire at 39), Join a defense contractor and ride into the sunset with dual retirements. All footed by public debt. It's pretty sickening from the inside.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    It's also frustrating to see double standards for veterans and non-veterans in the career tracks. The military-industrial complex contractor companies create a lot of sinecures, so that "retired" veterans actually have a place to go to work. It's a bit of a drag on each company, but the people writing the contracts are also military or ex-military, so they will write requirements into the contracts, such that those jobs positions have to exist and be filled in order to be the prime contractor. It would be a better jobs program for veterans to just keep them gainfully employed by the military somehow. Or send them back to school before retirement, to be educated for useful civilian skills. You might be surprised at how many people have jobs whose only real qualification is half a lifetime of filling out a specific form.
- MisterOctober 8y ago
  To be fair, inter-generational military families / military caste was de rigeur long before we switched to an all-volunteer force. The McCains are a good recent example. Personally, I dunno if I necessarily oppose the phenomenon -- if we accept military work as a legitimate field, I guess that wisdom passed through generations is desirable, even if it comes with similarly inherited attitudes. As example from other disciplines: farming and doctoring families are common and undoubtedly benefit from the dynastic nature of their trades.
  - billfruit 8y ago
    I read somewhere that during the early years of the US government, well into the 19th century, the govt was very wary of such a military caste getting established, and many well qualified individuals were denied commissions because their fathers/grand fathers/other immediate family had held commissions.
C1sc0cat 8y ago
Well then you have to stop paying "poverty wages" for the technical skills required. Btw this is a what a ex squaddie mate of mine said when he got a pitch from UK TLA on linked in. I get the strong impression that the nat sec community is stuck in the 1940's and 50's still thinks they can get high end cyber skills and pay enlisted wages - a cheery working class chap in the films he be played by Norman wisdom or George Formby