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> I signed no contract. Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. > It's not like Facebook and Google were hacking their way

> I signed no contract. Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. > It's not like Facebook and Google were hacking their way in here. They literally did (in the legal sense). But of course, it's a battle of two evils here. Both sides can just nuke each other if you ask me, I won't miss them ;)

ajross 8y ago
> Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. I think we're talking past each other here. I'm not talking about how Facebook and Google's spy kits were licensed to the end users or about their compliance with Apple's own vendor license. I was pointing out that the principle here is that I (and Facebook and Google) should have the ability to write and distribute software for you (and me, and Facebook and Google and even Apple) to use on your iPhone. And that the fact we don't have that ability is bad. And more to the point the fact that Apple's control over their platform was used to benefit the public by disallowing spy kits still does not make that control a good thing.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  What kind of principle is that it without rules? Free speech doesn’t allow libel and slander. Free assembly doesn’t allow riots. Without a framework for meaningful justice, the high minded principle is just a race to the bottom. I should be able to have the freedom to choose a platform where I have some protection against the various bad actors out there. Without Apple, the only options we have is non-participation, believing the lies, and arbritration.
  - mathnmusic 8y ago
    It's not "without rules". The rules are just democratically determined (i.e. laws).
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    > Free speech doesn’t allow libel and slander What? Very absolutely it does. It just doesn't protect from the consequences.
- kngspook 8y ago
  You can. Just give people the code, and they can load it on their device.

ajross 8y ago

> Facebook and Google did sign it and distributed their software based on it. I think we're talking past each other here. I'm not talking about how Facebook and Google's spy kits were licensed to the end users or about their compliance with Apple's own vendor license. I was pointing out that the principle here is that I (and Facebook and Google) should have the ability to write and distribute software for you (and me, and Facebook and Google and even Apple) to use on your iPhone. And that the fact we don't have that ability is bad. And more to the point the fact that Apple's control over their platform was used to benefit the public by disallowing spy kits still does not make that control a good thing.

Spooky23 8y ago
What kind of principle is that it without rules? Free speech doesn’t allow libel and slander. Free assembly doesn’t allow riots. Without a framework for meaningful justice, the high minded principle is just a race to the bottom. I should be able to have the freedom to choose a platform where I have some protection against the various bad actors out there. Without Apple, the only options we have is non-participation, believing the lies, and arbritration.
- mathnmusic 8y ago
  It's not "without rules". The rules are just democratically determined (i.e. laws).
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  > Free speech doesn’t allow libel and slander What? Very absolutely it does. It just doesn't protect from the consequences.
kngspook 8y ago
You can. Just give people the code, and they can load it on their device.