5 ms·

It seems like most of the things that make a university "good" are things that a prospective undergrad, with no college experience, would be least likely to kno

by RK 16y ago

It seems like most of the things that make a university "good" are things that a prospective undergrad, with no college experience, would be least likely to know. I'm not implying that the current system is a a good one.

carbocation 16y ago
I agree, and this is why I distinguish college, which is a place that undergrads go for 4 years, from university, which is the larger institution as a whole. For certain characteristics of colleges, I believe it is fair to see students and parents as informed consumers; e.g., when considering cost and prestige, they probably do a good job. Without anything to substantiate this, I would also guess that students do a reasonably good job of selecting institutions that will make them employable (we're getting into fuzzy territory so I don't want to make too strong of a claim). But I agree that this method of ranking colleges would not translate into a ranking of universities as greater entities. If Kenyon suddenly made tuition free for everyone, they might lure away enough students to become the "Best" in my rankings, but it would not therefore follow that Kenyon's academic output trumps that of Princeton.
- dhume 16y ago
  I think GP was referring to the undergrad program. For what it's worth, I haven't met many students who knew much about their degree program's curricula or their general education requirements. Not knowing this makes them seem ineffective at evaluating the college. Given all the stories I hear of, for example, art students surprised that they cannot find jobs, I'm not sure I trust incoming students as estimators of employability either. The only things I really would trust them to evaluate are the school's reputation and the first year's tuition.
  - carbocation 16y ago
    To a large degree, I agree with both you and RK.
- RK 16y ago
  I agree with what you said, although I actually meant that students themselves probably don't know what makes a college good for them, education-wise and in the long run. I really don't know the answer either. Being surrounded by other smart students, class size, specific teachers, research opportunities, campus culture, student body diversity, etc? I think the biggest thing about going to college is that it's totally different than what you've experienced before. A prospective student will necessarily be deciding on very incomplete information. Unfortunately, you probably need about a semester's worth of experience before knowing if a given school were truly a good fit...

by RK 16y ago

carbocation 16y ago

I agree, and this is why I distinguish college, which is a place that undergrads go for 4 years, from university, which is the larger institution as a whole. For certain characteristics of colleges, I believe it is fair to see students and parents as informed consumers; e.g., when considering cost and prestige, they probably do a good job. Without anything to substantiate this, I would also guess that students do a reasonably good job of selecting institutions that will make them employable (we're getting into fuzzy territory so I don't want to make too strong of a claim). But I agree that this method of ranking colleges would not translate into a ranking of universities as greater entities. If Kenyon suddenly made tuition free for everyone, they might lure away enough students to become the "Best" in my rankings, but it would not therefore follow that Kenyon's academic output trumps that of Princeton.

dhume 16y ago
I think GP was referring to the undergrad program. For what it's worth, I haven't met many students who knew much about their degree program's curricula or their general education requirements. Not knowing this makes them seem ineffective at evaluating the college. Given all the stories I hear of, for example, art students surprised that they cannot find jobs, I'm not sure I trust incoming students as estimators of employability either. The only things I really would trust them to evaluate are the school's reputation and the first year's tuition.
- carbocation 16y ago
  To a large degree, I agree with both you and RK.
RK 16y ago
I agree with what you said, although I actually meant that students themselves probably don't know what makes a college good for them, education-wise and in the long run. I really don't know the answer either. Being surrounded by other smart students, class size, specific teachers, research opportunities, campus culture, student body diversity, etc? I think the biggest thing about going to college is that it's totally different than what you've experienced before. A prospective student will necessarily be deciding on very incomplete information. Unfortunately, you probably need about a semester's worth of experience before knowing if a given school were truly a good fit...