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When the last CFO left in under 2 years, and many other senior execs seem to be fleeing, the worrisome implication is that TSLA has trouble attracting and retai

When the last CFO left in under 2 years, and many other senior execs seem to be fleeing, the worrisome implication is that TSLA has trouble attracting and retaining senior talent given the work pressure and thin financial margin, so they are instead turning to a relatively green home-bred 34 yo. At the end of the day, I'm not personally worried about this and think this guy will likely do just fine, but this is sufficiently unusual that I don't think the WSJ article is odd.

pbrb 8y ago
I think you called it... was thinking similar thoughts, that they can't get anyone from the outside and this kid on the inside is hungry, with perceived though not yet proven externally, capability. I like it.
jklinger410 8y ago
>the worrisome implication is that TSLA has trouble attracting and retaining senior talent given the work pressure and thin financial margin A lot of "senior talent" are probably entitled, slow, and pedestrian. A lot of companies like these people because they are good at maintaining a caste system and shaking hands. I think Tesla, as a disruptor, both needs and hates these employees. They need someone who has "done it before" so they can get out ahead of rookie mistakes. But they also need someone who will work hard, fast, and not get caught up thinking that they know everything. I have never been bothered by high churn for execs at Tesla. Have any of you ever even met or worked for/with "senior talent?" I bet Musk would rather be in the room with engineers who hate having reports than people-people.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Yes, I work with senior talent all the time. Musk is precisely the bad kind of senior talent--imperious, oblivious, and completely unwilling to listen to advice from others even when he's been shown to be wrong. The senior talent that's spent the last 3 years leaving Tesla? They've got documented success at other companies within their respective niches. With Finance, especially, you want someone with experience and knowledge because Finance is quite literally the heart of your company. The CFOs and other CxOs that have left Tesla have done good jobs at other companies, so the fact that so many of them are leaving Tesla, especially within such a short window and without replacement positions lined up, is good evidence that Tesla's books are in bad shape. No CFO of a publicly traded company leaves the job voluntarily if everything's fine.
  - travisoneill1 8y ago
    > Musk is precisely the bad kind of senior talent Tell that to the investors. He has made them a fortune in every enterprise he has ever run. What kind of senior talent would you want? You talk about documented success, but who has more of that than Elon Musk? It's a short list. If you don't like him, just say it, but don't make ridiculous claims.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      Well, not SolarCity. They were about to go bankrupt and were saved only because Elon used Tesla to acquire them. Not BoringCo, which has yet to make money and is privately owned. Not SpaceX, which just announced massive layoffs (and which is also privately owned). Not even Paypal, where the technology stack came from Thiel, and the business decisions that led it to becoming the payment gateway for a generation of Internet companies...also came from Thiel. Elon's reign as CEO was a disaster and he was unceromoniously fired.
      - travisoneill1 8y ago
        If SpaceX doesn't count as a success, I, and everyone I have ever met is a complete failure. Success does not mean perfection.
        dralley 8y ago
        Who deserves more credit for SpaceX's current success, Musk or Gwynne Shotwell? This is a serious question.
        synaesthesisx 8y ago
        SpaceX's incredible success would have been impossible without Gwynne Shotwell at the helm. Tesla needs someone of this caliber on the board
        gamblor956 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago
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nickik 8y ago
The narrative that Tesla has a 'fleeing execs' is mostly false. For years every-time somebody lefts there are articles claiming that managers a fleeing. Overall however the turnover rate is not very exceptional and somehow Tesla still has highly performing managers after years of 'fleeing execs'. Tesla is continuing to grow at a high rate threw all that so its really hard for me to see this as anything other then narrative.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  https://twitter.com/IsFunkyMonkey/status/1090778355664805891 https://twitter.com/IsFunkyMonkey/status/1090778355664805891 “To be fair, finance positions typically are the hardest to fill. With it being a new science, the lack of codified rules/schools, & the propensity for finance people to want to spend time with their families at every waking moment. Tesla's doing better than usual w/ retention.”
  - rchaud 8y ago
    This is a joke, right? It's hard to tell because online Musk fans often give off the air of a new cult member, where everything the leader says is true, and any criticism is false. Finance is a 'new science'? Maybe if you're building trading algorithms, but that's not what a CFO does. And the thing about not wanting to work long hours is ridiculous when that's what every CPA is doing during tax, audit and earnings seasons.
    - hopler 8y ago
      Most of that persons tweets are anti Musk/Tesla
firstplacelast 8y ago
Do you think they have difficulty retaining senior talent because they are underpaying or that Tesla is a shit-show to work for? Either way, it's extremely difficult for younger people to be in CxO positions unless they start a company. I'm extremely doubtful that most can't do the job, it's just that they can't get hired. I'm sure this person will do just as good of a job as any 50+ yo with an extra decade or two of experience. Typically people that require 10+ years of experience to perform a job are worse off than someone that is capable after only 4-5years. Lots of dumb-fuck boomers out there that had to be spoon fed every iota of information before they could perform at a high level.
- rchaud 8y ago
  > Do you think they have difficulty retaining senior talent because they are underpaying or that Tesla is a shit-show to work for? The latter; I can't imagine exec compensation at Tesla is bad. That said, the CFO role is going to be very tough when they have major financial obligations coming due this year. And seeing as how the boss is a guy who proselytizes ideas straight out of science fiction comics, I'm guessing he won't be very understanding when the CFO says "I can't just move these numbers around".
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Finance isn't like programming. Programming is skill-based, so it's easy to become good at a quickly. Finance is knowledge-based, and a lot of that knowledge can only be learned by actual on-the-job experience. So, years of experience in a knowledge-based field is simply a shortcut/rubric for measuring a person's knowledge of their craft. Typically, people in knowledge-based fields who think that they're as good at their jobs after 4-5 years as someone who has been practicing 10+ years are full of $$$$ and tend to create more problems for their clients/employers than they solve.
  - hartator 8y ago
    What the difference between skills and knowlegde in performing these two very intelectual jobs?

pbrb 8y ago

I think you called it... was thinking similar thoughts, that they can't get anyone from the outside and this kid on the inside is hungry, with perceived though not yet proven externally, capability. I like it.

jklinger410 8y ago

>the worrisome implication is that TSLA has trouble attracting and retaining senior talent given the work pressure and thin financial margin A lot of "senior talent" are probably entitled, slow, and pedestrian. A lot of companies like these people because they are good at maintaining a caste system and shaking hands. I think Tesla, as a disruptor, both needs and hates these employees. They need someone who has "done it before" so they can get out ahead of rookie mistakes. But they also need someone who will work hard, fast, and not get caught up thinking that they know everything. I have never been bothered by high churn for execs at Tesla. Have any of you ever even met or worked for/with "senior talent?" I bet Musk would rather be in the room with engineers who hate having reports than people-people.

gamblor956 8y ago
Yes, I work with senior talent all the time. Musk is precisely the bad kind of senior talent--imperious, oblivious, and completely unwilling to listen to advice from others even when he's been shown to be wrong. The senior talent that's spent the last 3 years leaving Tesla? They've got documented success at other companies within their respective niches. With Finance, especially, you want someone with experience and knowledge because Finance is quite literally the heart of your company. The CFOs and other CxOs that have left Tesla have done good jobs at other companies, so the fact that so many of them are leaving Tesla, especially within such a short window and without replacement positions lined up, is good evidence that Tesla's books are in bad shape. No CFO of a publicly traded company leaves the job voluntarily if everything's fine.
- travisoneill1 8y ago
  > Musk is precisely the bad kind of senior talent Tell that to the investors. He has made them a fortune in every enterprise he has ever run. What kind of senior talent would you want? You talk about documented success, but who has more of that than Elon Musk? It's a short list. If you don't like him, just say it, but don't make ridiculous claims.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    Well, not SolarCity. They were about to go bankrupt and were saved only because Elon used Tesla to acquire them. Not BoringCo, which has yet to make money and is privately owned. Not SpaceX, which just announced massive layoffs (and which is also privately owned). Not even Paypal, where the technology stack came from Thiel, and the business decisions that led it to becoming the payment gateway for a generation of Internet companies...also came from Thiel. Elon's reign as CEO was a disaster and he was unceromoniously fired.
    - travisoneill1 8y ago
      If SpaceX doesn't count as a success, I, and everyone I have ever met is a complete failure. Success does not mean perfection.
      - dralley 8y ago
        Who deserves more credit for SpaceX's current success, Musk or Gwynne Shotwell? This is a serious question.
        synaesthesisx 8y ago
        SpaceX's incredible success would have been impossible without Gwynne Shotwell at the helm. Tesla needs someone of this caliber on the board
      - gamblor956 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

nickik 8y ago

The narrative that Tesla has a 'fleeing execs' is mostly false. For years every-time somebody lefts there are articles claiming that managers a fleeing. Overall however the turnover rate is not very exceptional and somehow Tesla still has highly performing managers after years of 'fleeing execs'. Tesla is continuing to grow at a high rate threw all that so its really hard for me to see this as anything other then narrative.

kgwgk 8y ago
https://twitter.com/IsFunkyMonkey/status/1090778355664805891 https://twitter.com/IsFunkyMonkey/status/1090778355664805891 “To be fair, finance positions typically are the hardest to fill. With it being a new science, the lack of codified rules/schools, & the propensity for finance people to want to spend time with their families at every waking moment. Tesla's doing better than usual w/ retention.”
- rchaud 8y ago
  This is a joke, right? It's hard to tell because online Musk fans often give off the air of a new cult member, where everything the leader says is true, and any criticism is false. Finance is a 'new science'? Maybe if you're building trading algorithms, but that's not what a CFO does. And the thing about not wanting to work long hours is ridiculous when that's what every CPA is doing during tax, audit and earnings seasons.
  - hopler 8y ago
    Most of that persons tweets are anti Musk/Tesla

firstplacelast 8y ago

Do you think they have difficulty retaining senior talent because they are underpaying or that Tesla is a shit-show to work for? Either way, it's extremely difficult for younger people to be in CxO positions unless they start a company. I'm extremely doubtful that most can't do the job, it's just that they can't get hired. I'm sure this person will do just as good of a job as any 50+ yo with an extra decade or two of experience. Typically people that require 10+ years of experience to perform a job are worse off than someone that is capable after only 4-5years. Lots of dumb-fuck boomers out there that had to be spoon fed every iota of information before they could perform at a high level.

rchaud 8y ago
> Do you think they have difficulty retaining senior talent because they are underpaying or that Tesla is a shit-show to work for? The latter; I can't imagine exec compensation at Tesla is bad. That said, the CFO role is going to be very tough when they have major financial obligations coming due this year. And seeing as how the boss is a guy who proselytizes ideas straight out of science fiction comics, I'm guessing he won't be very understanding when the CFO says "I can't just move these numbers around".
gamblor956 8y ago
Finance isn't like programming. Programming is skill-based, so it's easy to become good at a quickly. Finance is knowledge-based, and a lot of that knowledge can only be learned by actual on-the-job experience. So, years of experience in a knowledge-based field is simply a shortcut/rubric for measuring a person's knowledge of their craft. Typically, people in knowledge-based fields who think that they're as good at their jobs after 4-5 years as someone who has been practicing 10+ years are full of $$$$ and tend to create more problems for their clients/employers than they solve.
- hartator 8y ago
  What the difference between skills and knowlegde in performing these two very intelectual jobs?