4 ms·

Another thing e.g. with bandsaws is that their wheels have large diameters, are heavy (~10 kilos for a 500 mm saw), with most mass concentrated on the rim, and

Another thing e.g. with bandsaws is that their wheels have large diameters, are heavy (~10 kilos for a 500 mm saw), with most mass concentrated on the rim, and spinning at fairly high linear velocities (10-30 m/s), i.e. they are perfect flywheels. If a bandsaw has neither mechanical nor motor braking (absence of which has been banned for decades here), they'll typically take several minutes to come to a stand still, and they're perfectly capable of cutting through hardwood at slow speeds - not to speak of flesh or bones. Format table saws used in most carpenters shops here have 5-7.5 kW motors (7.5 kW are ~10 HP). Impressive power. Though format saws are far safer by design than regular table saws (and better for both your back, and accuracy, too). That being said kickback is almost always caused by making a cut that simply can't be made safely on a table saw. With suitably sized work pieces the next major concern is binding; a riving knife helps with this but naturally cannot prevent it -- it just gives you more time to shut the saw off. (Larger workpieces are also somewhat -- not much -- less problematic when caught on the blade, because they won't fly as fast or far as a small, light workpiece).

mauvehaus 8y ago
As a US woodworker, I'm unfamiliar with how the Euro-style sliders are actually used in practice. If you have a video you could post a link to that shows some of the things that are done with them with safe technique, I'd be really interested. I think part of the appeal of a table saw for woodworkers here is that if you can set up a jig, you can do a lot of pieces with good repeatability. I cut bridle joints to make seat frames yesterday, for instance, and once I set up the jig, I could cut them quickly and accurately. Ditto cutting tenon cheeks. This is definitely one of the sketchier things you can do with a table saw, in large part because the workpiece is standing on end (supported by the jig, of course), but if you cock it out of vertical, you've set up a situation where kickback is quite likely. This is something I'd love to hear about a safer alternative. As it happens, I have an old Unisaw, and I have an original sliding table for it. I would really like to see what I can do with that above and beyond the obvious. Thanks!
- blattimwind 8y ago
  The larger manufacturers (Altendorf, Felder) probably have videos. Marius Hornberger has a really cute Felder saw and shows some stuff. Jigs are normally mounted to the sliding table (which has T-slots for this), which pretty much constrains both jig and workpiece to a single degree of freedom. (And if you clamp the workpiece to the jig you can guide the cut with one hand on the sliding table and still have another hand free to support e.g. a long workpiece that's mounted vertically -- and both hands stay well clear of the saw blade). Basic operation would be e.g. - having a panel with one straight edge, cutting a panel of given dimensions with square and straight edges out of it. Straight edge goes against the cross-cut fence that's mounted on the sliding table, first cut, turn 90° and use stop on the cross-cut fence (they usually have two independent stops) to cut it to width, turn 90°, cut to height. - Rough sawn lumber with live edge, clamp it to the table, trim live edge off, use rip fence to trim the other side off. - Unlike a miter gauge / cross-cut slider on a normal table saw, the sliding table can be used together with the rip fence safely. This makes it very easy and safe to rip narrow strips from a wide panel or board. This also makes it easy to e.g. cross-cut square-ish things off a board or panel, something which is pretty much impossible to do safely on a normal table saw. The rip fence on an F45 goes to well over a meter, so if you have many parts with the same length this is a real time saver. - There are very accurate miter gauges that use fixed stops to mount to the sliding table (e.g. Altendorf Duplex). These allow to cut "into" the miter in both directions with basically perfect accuracy + repeatability (even when removing the jig from the table, as long as you don't touch the stops on it, it will cut the same miter when re-mounted). All miters I have ever made on the Duplex came out perfect, except a few that I screwed up during glue up. - For edge mitering using the swivel-function of the blade works very nicely because even older models have digital readouts which are accurate enough that you can set them to 45.0° and get a perfect joint. Some never saws can swivel the blade in both directions (+45° and -45°). Swivel and cut depth are adjusted by foot-pedal (which I think is pneumatic) or electrically. - Some rip fences can go to a few centimeters negative, zero included, which means you can use the saw as a sort of big flush cutter. Scales are adjustable and use magnifying readouts, (mirror) vernier scales or are digital. When adjusted correctly, they're very accurate and repeatable. Rip fence on an Altendorf has a fine adjustment that works after clamping, so no measurement change due to tightening the clamping. Overall it's just very nice to work with because you don't have to move the workpiece around by yourself, and when using the rip fence you're always standing a good bit off to the side.

mauvehaus 8y ago

As a US woodworker, I'm unfamiliar with how the Euro-style sliders are actually used in practice. If you have a video you could post a link to that shows some of the things that are done with them with safe technique, I'd be really interested. I think part of the appeal of a table saw for woodworkers here is that if you can set up a jig, you can do a lot of pieces with good repeatability. I cut bridle joints to make seat frames yesterday, for instance, and once I set up the jig, I could cut them quickly and accurately. Ditto cutting tenon cheeks. This is definitely one of the sketchier things you can do with a table saw, in large part because the workpiece is standing on end (supported by the jig, of course), but if you cock it out of vertical, you've set up a situation where kickback is quite likely. This is something I'd love to hear about a safer alternative. As it happens, I have an old Unisaw, and I have an original sliding table for it. I would really like to see what I can do with that above and beyond the obvious. Thanks!

blattimwind 8y ago
The larger manufacturers (Altendorf, Felder) probably have videos. Marius Hornberger has a really cute Felder saw and shows some stuff. Jigs are normally mounted to the sliding table (which has T-slots for this), which pretty much constrains both jig and workpiece to a single degree of freedom. (And if you clamp the workpiece to the jig you can guide the cut with one hand on the sliding table and still have another hand free to support e.g. a long workpiece that's mounted vertically -- and both hands stay well clear of the saw blade). Basic operation would be e.g. - having a panel with one straight edge, cutting a panel of given dimensions with square and straight edges out of it. Straight edge goes against the cross-cut fence that's mounted on the sliding table, first cut, turn 90° and use stop on the cross-cut fence (they usually have two independent stops) to cut it to width, turn 90°, cut to height. - Rough sawn lumber with live edge, clamp it to the table, trim live edge off, use rip fence to trim the other side off. - Unlike a miter gauge / cross-cut slider on a normal table saw, the sliding table can be used together with the rip fence safely. This makes it very easy and safe to rip narrow strips from a wide panel or board. This also makes it easy to e.g. cross-cut square-ish things off a board or panel, something which is pretty much impossible to do safely on a normal table saw. The rip fence on an F45 goes to well over a meter, so if you have many parts with the same length this is a real time saver. - There are very accurate miter gauges that use fixed stops to mount to the sliding table (e.g. Altendorf Duplex). These allow to cut "into" the miter in both directions with basically perfect accuracy + repeatability (even when removing the jig from the table, as long as you don't touch the stops on it, it will cut the same miter when re-mounted). All miters I have ever made on the Duplex came out perfect, except a few that I screwed up during glue up. - For edge mitering using the swivel-function of the blade works very nicely because even older models have digital readouts which are accurate enough that you can set them to 45.0° and get a perfect joint. Some never saws can swivel the blade in both directions (+45° and -45°). Swivel and cut depth are adjusted by foot-pedal (which I think is pneumatic) or electrically. - Some rip fences can go to a few centimeters negative, zero included, which means you can use the saw as a sort of big flush cutter. Scales are adjustable and use magnifying readouts, (mirror) vernier scales or are digital. When adjusted correctly, they're very accurate and repeatable. Rip fence on an Altendorf has a fine adjustment that works after clamping, so no measurement change due to tightening the clamping. Overall it's just very nice to work with because you don't have to move the workpiece around by yourself, and when using the rip fence you're always standing a good bit off to the side.