4 ms·

"To hackers the recent contraction in civil liberties seems especially ominous. That must also mystify outsiders. Why should we care especially about civil libe

"To hackers the recent contraction in civil liberties seems especially ominous. That must also mystify outsiders. Why should we care especially about civil liberties? Why programmers, more than dentists or salesmen or landscapers? Let me put the case in terms a government official would appreciate. Civil liberties are not just an ornament, or a quaint American tradition. Civil liberties make countries rich. If you made a graph of GNP per capita vs. civil liberties, you'd notice a definite trend. Could civil liberties really be a cause, rather than just an effect? I think so. I think a society in which people can do and say what they want will also tend to be one in which the most efficient solutions win, rather than those sponsored by the most influential people. Authoritarian countries become corrupt; corrupt countries become poor; and poor countries are weak. It seems to me there is a Laffer curve for government power, just as for tax revenues. At least, it seems likely enough that it would be stupid to try the experiment and find out. Unlike high tax rates, you can't repeal totalitarianism if it turns out to be a mistake. This is why hackers worry. The government spying on people doesn't literally make programmers write worse code. It just leads eventually to a world in which bad ideas win. And because this is so important to hackers, they're especially sensitive to it. They can sense totalitarianism approaching from a distance, as animals can sense an approaching thunderstorm. It would be ironic if, as hackers fear, recent measures intended to protect national security and intellectual property turned out to be a missile aimed right at what makes America successful. But it would not be the first time that measures taken in an atmosphere of panic had the opposite of the intended effect." - from pg's essay: The Word "Hacker". http://www.paulgraham.com/gba.html http://www.paulgraham.com/gba.html It seems to me (as a non-American) that America's default response to terrorism is to deprive itself of ever-more civil liberties. This is why I believe some on HN deem TSA articles HN-worthy material. EDIT: Link

ygd 16y ago
"It seems to me (as a non-American) that America's default response to terrorism is to deprive itself of ever-more civil liberties. This is why I believe some on HN deem TSA articles HN-worthy material." It's not just how America would respond. Almost any country would up security measures and, as a byproduct, deprive itself of civil liberties.
- fragmede 16y ago
  In the 90's, Britain was under what could truly be called terrorist attack by the (P)IRA. Civil liberties were not severely curtailed to the same extent that the Patriot act allowed.
- irons 16y ago
  Almost any country would up security measures and, as a byproduct, deprive itself of civil liberties. That's exactly wrong: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4ce0361af7973d2e,0 http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelifi...
  - hga 16y ago
    Except that it sure doesn't look like the Israeli system could scale to US traffic volumes.
- MaysonL 16y ago
  See: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelifi... It's not upping security, it's upping security in a way which increases safety, at minimum inconvenience to traveleres. The US TSA bureaucracy, and its emphasis on scanning everything and everybody, and making everybody waste a lot of time, is dumb.
ck2 16y ago
There is a huge advantage for the powers-that-be, to be able to treat everyone like a criminal first and get most of the public to go along with it "for their safety". TSA "enhanced pat down" is basically what they do when they book people into jail, except there they do it with you naked. So the ironic part is if you refuse it, a few hours later they are probably going to be doing it to you anyway, just with you naked. The more laws there are out there, the more likely you are breaking one, whether it's flying, taxes, etc. and then they get the "troublemakers" in the system no matter how innocent. Far more clever than anything the KGB did iron-fisted eh?

ygd 16y ago

"It seems to me (as a non-American) that America's default response to terrorism is to deprive itself of ever-more civil liberties. This is why I believe some on HN deem TSA articles HN-worthy material." It's not just how America would respond. Almost any country would up security measures and, as a byproduct, deprive itself of civil liberties.

fragmede 16y ago
In the 90's, Britain was under what could truly be called terrorist attack by the (P)IRA. Civil liberties were not severely curtailed to the same extent that the Patriot act allowed.
irons 16y ago
Almost any country would up security measures and, as a byproduct, deprive itself of civil liberties. That's exactly wrong: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4ce0361af7973d2e,0 http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelifi...
- hga 16y ago
  Except that it sure doesn't look like the Israeli system could scale to US traffic volumes.
MaysonL 16y ago
See: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelifi... It's not upping security, it's upping security in a way which increases safety, at minimum inconvenience to traveleres. The US TSA bureaucracy, and its emphasis on scanning everything and everybody, and making everybody waste a lot of time, is dumb.

ck2 16y ago

There is a huge advantage for the powers-that-be, to be able to treat everyone like a criminal first and get most of the public to go along with it "for their safety". TSA "enhanced pat down" is basically what they do when they book people into jail, except there they do it with you naked. So the ironic part is if you refuse it, a few hours later they are probably going to be doing it to you anyway, just with you naked. The more laws there are out there, the more likely you are breaking one, whether it's flying, taxes, etc. and then they get the "troublemakers" in the system no matter how innocent. Far more clever than anything the KGB did iron-fisted eh?