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I'm a hobbyist woodworker. After meeting so many craft store employees with missing fingers (vast majority from table saw accidents) I will never operate anythi

I'm a hobbyist woodworker. After meeting so many craft store employees with missing fingers (vast majority from table saw accidents) I will never operate anything other than a SawStop [https://www.sawstop.com https://www.sawstop.com]. The origin of SawStop is quite a cool story. The founder and inventor created this auto-stop saw, and tried to sell the tech to all the major saw manufacturers. No company would buy it because they didn't think there was a market, so he started a company around it which is disrupting the entire market.

nek4life 8y ago
It's too bad SawStop saws are incredibly expensive (and going up in price Feb 1st.) They are definitely worth it compared to the cost of an injury, however many people are priced right out of owning one.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  They've also used their patents to stop competitors entering the market. So we're stuck with them for 20 years or however long their patent is.
  - nek4life 8y ago
    I believe the patent expires in 2021, however I'm sure their lawyers will likely find a way to extend it well into the future.
    - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
      On the one hand, that guy shopped his technology around for years trying to find someone to work with... on the other hand, I find it weird to see a useful safety technology hidden behind patents.
  - Zanni 8y ago
    Competitors only tried to enter the market after SawStop validated the market's existence. Something that never would have happened without the assurance of profit that the patent provided. The company tried to license the technology, unsuccessfully, for years, before going into manufacturing themselves.
naikrovek 8y ago
I am all for SawStop and their invention. I am also all for the Consumer Product Safety Commission doing their fucking job and requiring this to be part of any table saw sold in the US, without paying SawStop any patent fees. This is a consumer safety issue; the exact kind of thing that the CPSC was created to manage, and they've done nothing to reduce or limit the number of appendages being cut off in saw accidents.
- jamiequint 8y ago
  > without paying SawStop any patent fees That'd be a great way to stop any future safety innovation that may benefit many people.
  - ahoy 8y ago
    It isn't benefiting many people now. Look at these prices https://www.sawstop.com/build/ https://www.sawstop.com/build/
    - mrlala 8y ago
      Yeah it's crazy, just went to their site. "Jobsite Saw" at $1299. Otherwise known as "exactly like something you can buy at home depot for $299" but without their protection. About $1000 more for their stuff.. most people can't afford that. I can barely get myself to spend the $300 on a table saw as it is.
    - edaemon 8y ago
      Their jobsite and contractor saws are expensive, but the cabinet saws are priced pretty similarly to other high quality cabinet saws (and SawStops are high quality).
    - grmarcil 8y ago
      True, they are not cheap tools, but SawStop makes high quality equipment. Their prices are a bit cheaper than Powermatic [1], and the saws compare favorably in performance-oriented reviews. SawStop isn't really a homeowner tool, but it is certainly within an accessible price range for enthusiasts, schools, and professionals. [1] https://www.toolnut.com/power-tools/saws/table-saws.html?manufacturer=Powermatic https://www.toolnut.com/power-tools/saws/table-saws.html?man...
sschueller 8y ago
Sawstop is a great invention but has known to false trigger and you then need to replace the blade and the gas cartridge. I believe wet wood is an issue.
- driverdan 8y ago
  If you use a Sawstop you should know what can cause it to trigger and not use those materials. Let your wood dry before cutting and never use something with foil on it.
  - sf_rob 8y ago
    Also, Sawstop has a bypass if you have to use it on something mildly conductive.
    - fian 8y ago
      Such as slightly damp wood (think portable jobsite saw for framers or finish carpenters) or aluminium (yep, you can easily cut aluminium with most wood working tools).
sf_rob 8y ago
For the unfamiliar in this thread. The SawStop on it's own will not prevent kickback as seen in this video. That said there are other types of anti-kick guards available.
- birken 8y ago
  I've been waiting for somebody to say this. The SawStop would ideally prevent his hand from being cut by the blade, but it wouldn't stop the wood from flinging back from the machine at high speed which is incredibly dangerous on its own and could cause (and has caused) severe injuries to people. I'm not against SawStop saws, and in fact I own one, but I would not feel any danger using any other type of table saw in good working condition. Understanding how the machine works and taking the proper safety precautions is much more important to your overall safety than something like SawStop technology.
saidajigumi 8y ago
As a fairly experienced woodworker, I have another angle on this: the SawStop is a band-aid on the typical American "cabinet saw" design. Cabinet saws (and worse, contractor jobsite table saws) invite doing really dumb things re: workholding. That is, how the workpiece being cut is secured before, during, and after the cut. Most of these dumb things are essentially invitations to secure the work using your hands anywhere near the blade. In contrast, variants of sliding table saws are the norm in Europe and elsewhere. These are common in the US as panel saws for cutting sheet goods, but also come in much smaller sizes which are often better for smaller shops and solid wood-based applications. The workholding is different: a slider and a few standard accessories eliminates the need for crosscut sleds, common jigs, and a whole display of gripping-things at your local Woodcraft. The operator stands to the left of the slider, and the blade is to the right – if kickback happens, the operator is entirely out of the line of fire. Likewise, the operator's hands are pushing the slider, not near the blade. Since the work is moved with and/or fixed to the slider this eliminates entire classes of errors that lead to injury. The design difference is profound, akin to the coding philosophy of "make bad states unrepresentable". I'd absolutely prefer a SawStop if I were using a cabinet or contractor saw again, but IMO a sliding table saw is intrinsically safer than a cabinet saw, even with excellent workholding discipline.
specialist 8y ago
I don't remember the details... A trauma doctor invented a new helmet for motorcyclists. Reduces neck injuries. Couldn't get any mfgs to bite. So he started his own company. Gotta love the innovator's dilemma. (The opportunities are insurmountable.)

nek4life 8y ago

It's too bad SawStop saws are incredibly expensive (and going up in price Feb 1st.) They are definitely worth it compared to the cost of an injury, however many people are priced right out of owning one.

Someone1234 8y ago
They've also used their patents to stop competitors entering the market. So we're stuck with them for 20 years or however long their patent is.
- nek4life 8y ago
  I believe the patent expires in 2021, however I'm sure their lawyers will likely find a way to extend it well into the future.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
    On the one hand, that guy shopped his technology around for years trying to find someone to work with... on the other hand, I find it weird to see a useful safety technology hidden behind patents.
- Zanni 8y ago
  Competitors only tried to enter the market after SawStop validated the market's existence. Something that never would have happened without the assurance of profit that the patent provided. The company tried to license the technology, unsuccessfully, for years, before going into manufacturing themselves.

naikrovek 8y ago

I am all for SawStop and their invention. I am also all for the Consumer Product Safety Commission doing their fucking job and requiring this to be part of any table saw sold in the US, without paying SawStop any patent fees. This is a consumer safety issue; the exact kind of thing that the CPSC was created to manage, and they've done nothing to reduce or limit the number of appendages being cut off in saw accidents.

jamiequint 8y ago
> without paying SawStop any patent fees That'd be a great way to stop any future safety innovation that may benefit many people.
- ahoy 8y ago
  It isn't benefiting many people now. Look at these prices https://www.sawstop.com/build/ https://www.sawstop.com/build/
  - mrlala 8y ago
    Yeah it's crazy, just went to their site. "Jobsite Saw" at $1299. Otherwise known as "exactly like something you can buy at home depot for $299" but without their protection. About $1000 more for their stuff.. most people can't afford that. I can barely get myself to spend the $300 on a table saw as it is.
  - edaemon 8y ago
    Their jobsite and contractor saws are expensive, but the cabinet saws are priced pretty similarly to other high quality cabinet saws (and SawStops are high quality).
  - grmarcil 8y ago
    True, they are not cheap tools, but SawStop makes high quality equipment. Their prices are a bit cheaper than Powermatic [1], and the saws compare favorably in performance-oriented reviews. SawStop isn't really a homeowner tool, but it is certainly within an accessible price range for enthusiasts, schools, and professionals. [1] https://www.toolnut.com/power-tools/saws/table-saws.html?manufacturer=Powermatic https://www.toolnut.com/power-tools/saws/table-saws.html?man...

sschueller 8y ago

Sawstop is a great invention but has known to false trigger and you then need to replace the blade and the gas cartridge. I believe wet wood is an issue.

driverdan 8y ago
If you use a Sawstop you should know what can cause it to trigger and not use those materials. Let your wood dry before cutting and never use something with foil on it.
- sf_rob 8y ago
  Also, Sawstop has a bypass if you have to use it on something mildly conductive.
  - fian 8y ago
    Such as slightly damp wood (think portable jobsite saw for framers or finish carpenters) or aluminium (yep, you can easily cut aluminium with most wood working tools).

sf_rob 8y ago

For the unfamiliar in this thread. The SawStop on it's own will not prevent kickback as seen in this video. That said there are other types of anti-kick guards available.

birken 8y ago
I've been waiting for somebody to say this. The SawStop would ideally prevent his hand from being cut by the blade, but it wouldn't stop the wood from flinging back from the machine at high speed which is incredibly dangerous on its own and could cause (and has caused) severe injuries to people. I'm not against SawStop saws, and in fact I own one, but I would not feel any danger using any other type of table saw in good working condition. Understanding how the machine works and taking the proper safety precautions is much more important to your overall safety than something like SawStop technology.

saidajigumi 8y ago

As a fairly experienced woodworker, I have another angle on this: the SawStop is a band-aid on the typical American "cabinet saw" design. Cabinet saws (and worse, contractor jobsite table saws) invite doing really dumb things re: workholding. That is, how the workpiece being cut is secured before, during, and after the cut. Most of these dumb things are essentially invitations to secure the work using your hands anywhere near the blade. In contrast, variants of sliding table saws are the norm in Europe and elsewhere. These are common in the US as panel saws for cutting sheet goods, but also come in much smaller sizes which are often better for smaller shops and solid wood-based applications. The workholding is different: a slider and a few standard accessories eliminates the need for crosscut sleds, common jigs, and a whole display of gripping-things at your local Woodcraft. The operator stands to the left of the slider, and the blade is to the right – if kickback happens, the operator is entirely out of the line of fire. Likewise, the operator's hands are pushing the slider, not near the blade. Since the work is moved with and/or fixed to the slider this eliminates entire classes of errors that lead to injury. The design difference is profound, akin to the coding philosophy of "make bad states unrepresentable". I'd absolutely prefer a SawStop if I were using a cabinet or contractor saw again, but IMO a sliding table saw is intrinsically safer than a cabinet saw, even with excellent workholding discipline.

specialist 8y ago

I don't remember the details... A trauma doctor invented a new helmet for motorcyclists. Reduces neck injuries. Couldn't get any mfgs to bite. So he started his own company. Gotta love the innovator's dilemma. (The opportunities are insurmountable.)