4 ms·

Well said. I wish they would actually go after the fraudulent diploma mills and sham universities that exist only for visas. Why not run sting ops against them

Well said. I wish they would actually go after the fraudulent diploma mills and sham universities that exist only for visas. Why not run sting ops against them by posing as students instead of against fricking students trying to maintain immigration status? I lost it at this: >The Department of Homeland Security’s list of certified schools where international students can enroll includes the University of Farmington. I don't know the specifics but can someone explain why this is not entrapment? What next, leave warm blankets near the homeless saying they're free to take and then arrest them for theft? Also DHS's list of certified schools just lost all its meaning and legitimacy. If MIT is on that list it might as well be a fraudulent university for all we know. This kind of shenanigans will just further plummet the already lower university enrollment.

humantiy 8y ago
If you are setting up a sting, wouldn't you want it to look legit as possible? ICE is part of DHS so it makes sense they would add it to their own list if the goal was to catch people attempting to exploit the program. If a student enrolled in this institution, it wouldn't have taken long for them to realize this was a sham and transfer out if they were truly seeking education. I believe it wasn't entrapment because ICE only set up the fake university, they didn't actually recruit people to it. That was other "students/recruiters" who were enrolled and helping others out to join (hence the indictments of the 8 recruiters). Also in there was this in the article: >Khaalid Walls, a spokesman for ICE in Detroit, told local news station WXYZ that the students had entered the United States legally on F-1 visas after being accepted to legitimate schools and had later transferred to the University of Farmington. If they were accepted to legit schools and then transferred to this one it seems likely that they weren't seeking education, but a means to stay here, which would be in violation of the visa.
yasp 8y ago
Enrolling in the school ostensibly isn't illegal per se.
- belltaco 8y ago
  Can there be civil suits against the government for time and money wasted in enrolling into fake universities that are fraudulently certified as legit? I am struggling to find a good analogy here. Like a fake cop that is certified as legit by the police department? Wouldn't that make him a real cop as far as the law is concerned? How is this a fake univ if it's certified as legit by ICE?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
gammateam 8y ago
> why this is not entrapment because they are charging the recruiters too! Hahaha this is hysterically bad, so because government agents werent the ones getting people to do what they wouldnt have otherwise done And because deportation isnt a criminal charge All necessary elements for an entrapment defense But The recruiters might have a defense and do face criminal charges
- optimuspaul 8y ago
  > And because deportation isnt a criminal charge but isn't it entrapment of the recruiters? I don't know, it may be legal but it's not ethical.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    Yes there is a possible argument
- Izkata 8y ago
  > so because government agents werent the ones getting people to do what they wouldnt have otherwise done If the recruiters were acting on the government agents' instructions, it still counts as entrapment.
delecti 8y ago
Presumably they're not being charged with attending a phony university. They weren't "entraped" to be here without a visa.
- belltaco 8y ago
  How is the university phony if it's certified by the federal government as legit? Presumably there is a process that needs to be followed by the DHS before a school is certified as legit. They transferred their valid visas from a legit university to this "phony" university. How can that result in 'no visa' if the university is certified by the govt as eligible to grant visas to international students?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

humantiy 8y ago

If you are setting up a sting, wouldn't you want it to look legit as possible? ICE is part of DHS so it makes sense they would add it to their own list if the goal was to catch people attempting to exploit the program. If a student enrolled in this institution, it wouldn't have taken long for them to realize this was a sham and transfer out if they were truly seeking education. I believe it wasn't entrapment because ICE only set up the fake university, they didn't actually recruit people to it. That was other "students/recruiters" who were enrolled and helping others out to join (hence the indictments of the 8 recruiters). Also in there was this in the article: >Khaalid Walls, a spokesman for ICE in Detroit, told local news station WXYZ that the students had entered the United States legally on F-1 visas after being accepted to legitimate schools and had later transferred to the University of Farmington. If they were accepted to legit schools and then transferred to this one it seems likely that they weren't seeking education, but a means to stay here, which would be in violation of the visa.

yasp 8y ago

Enrolling in the school ostensibly isn't illegal per se.

belltaco 8y ago
Can there be civil suits against the government for time and money wasted in enrolling into fake universities that are fraudulently certified as legit? I am struggling to find a good analogy here. Like a fake cop that is certified as legit by the police department? Wouldn't that make him a real cop as far as the law is concerned? How is this a fake univ if it's certified as legit by ICE?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

gammateam 8y ago

> why this is not entrapment because they are charging the recruiters too! Hahaha this is hysterically bad, so because government agents werent the ones getting people to do what they wouldnt have otherwise done And because deportation isnt a criminal charge All necessary elements for an entrapment defense But The recruiters might have a defense and do face criminal charges

optimuspaul 8y ago
> And because deportation isnt a criminal charge but isn't it entrapment of the recruiters? I don't know, it may be legal but it's not ethical.
- gammateam 8y ago
  Yes there is a possible argument
Izkata 8y ago
> so because government agents werent the ones getting people to do what they wouldnt have otherwise done If the recruiters were acting on the government agents' instructions, it still counts as entrapment.

delecti 8y ago

Presumably they're not being charged with attending a phony university. They weren't "entraped" to be here without a visa.

belltaco 8y ago
How is the university phony if it's certified by the federal government as legit? Presumably there is a process that needs to be followed by the DHS before a school is certified as legit. They transferred their valid visas from a legit university to this "phony" university. How can that result in 'no visa' if the university is certified by the govt as eligible to grant visas to international students?

deleted 8y ago

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